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View Full Version : KK 6-handed from SB, fairly ragged flop - what's my action?


deathpotato
12-24-2004, 09:14 PM
Hi, my first post in 1TT, please be gentle /images/graemlins/smile.gif This is a Party $10 + $1 and I felt fairly lost, I'm just starting to play SNGs and only have about 20 under my belt, and have only been playing hold'em for a month or so, so any and all comments would be a great help.

BB was playing quite loose, seeing about 50% of the flops, and was not afraid of calling a PF raise with rather trashy cards. He very rarely raised preflop. Postflop he was a little bit more aggressive, and had been caught bluffing once or twice. UTG was extremely loose and very passive, he very much liked to call.

PF I make a fairly standard 3BB raise, and it isolates BB, which is a good thing (I think)

On the flop is where I really get lost. Like I said, BB doesn't mind playing trash into a raise, so there's a small (very small) chance that I'm beaten here, but I wasn't really worried about that--I was more concerned with maximizing profit in this situation. Should I push to scare off an A or flush draw, or check and hope to induce a bluff, or should I make a mid-size bet? I felt very at sea while playing this flop. I'm sure my thinking is fairly backwards here, so I'd be very happy to hear some opinions on what the best action would be.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t845)
BB (t2265)
UTG (t2505)
UTG+1 (t1070)
MP1 (t640)
Button (t675)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls 30, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Button folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to t120</font>, BB calls t90, UTG calls 90

Flop: (t360) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero...

Again, thanks in advance for any and all comments, I know I've got a lot to learn, but please don't be too harsh!

syka16
12-24-2004, 09:18 PM
push because of the flush draw

david050173
12-24-2004, 10:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
push because of the flush draw

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a conservative way to play it. If you check, someone will probably bet (ie they will read you for AK not KK) and then you can come over the top. You can also bet the pot (make the flush draw pay) and see what develops. If the turn is a blank, you can push. There is a balance between risk and reward here. With Aces, I am definitely getting greedy and am willing to risk losing to the flush or 2 pair in order to win a big pot.

willperkins
12-24-2004, 10:20 PM
What you say makes a lot of sense and I would play it that way against a tighter player, but with two LAGs don't you think they will probably call the push anyway.

I push. There is t360 in the pot and you have two LAGs in the pot with a flush draw on the board. I would not check and let them get a free card to the flush draw. I would make them pay if they wanted to play.

david050173
12-24-2004, 10:33 PM
If they are going to call a push, sure it is a fine play. You get your money in when your a favorite. I would argue not pushing is still better since, if a blank comes on the turn, and you push now they have to call with only 1 card to come. Makes it easier for them the fold. If the turn puts a 3 flush on the board you can decide if you want to go down with this hand or fold to play another day.

Phoenix1010
12-24-2004, 10:49 PM
Well, it doesn't look like you isolated the big blind, as the UTG player appears to still be in the hand. There's enough worth winning in the pot already. It is very likely that you have the best hand at this point, but you only have one pair. You do not want to risk giving a flush draw or an ace a free chance at outdrawing you. Push the flop. A lot of times, AJ or KJ will pay you off.

Regards,
Steve

gehrig
12-24-2004, 10:58 PM
This is an easy push, I think.

LAGs with 2500 chips in round 2 of a 10+1 will call with a LOT of hands that will be drawing to 2-5 outs.

[ QUOTE ]
I would argue not pushing is still better since, if a blank comes on the turn, and you push now they have to call with only 1 card to come. Makes it easier for them the fold. If the turn puts a 3 flush on the board you can decide if you want to go down with this hand or fold to play another day.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless the flop was checked around, you have to push any turn.

If he leads out for 250 and gets one caller, the pot is now almost twice as big as his stack. Even if a diamond hits, he'll be up against a worse pair enough to have the odds to put the rest of his stack in.

deathpotato
12-24-2004, 11:19 PM
Sorry about that, I wrote up the discussion before doing the history, and for some reason I thought that UTG folded preflop. Anyway, I ended up pushing, BB called and showed AA to win, and UTG folded.

Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful to see the reasoning behind these decisions!

ilya
12-25-2004, 12:02 AM
I like pushing ok, but it's a large overbet and even a LAG may fold something like 88 when you very much want a call. If you feel confident that BB will bet, check and give him a chance to do just that. Let him put some chips into the pot so he definitely feels committed. UTG will probably call because he likes to do that, and then you can come over the top all-in.
Another way of playing it would be to raise more preflop &amp; push into the larger flop pot. I like a 150 or even a 180 preflop raise; they're loose, they'll call -- let them make a bigger preflop mistake.

david050173
12-25-2004, 01:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry about that, I wrote up the discussion before doing the history, and for some reason I thought that UTG folded preflop. Anyway, I ended up pushing, BB called and showed AA to win, and UTG folded.

Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful to see the reasoning behind these decisions!

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just bad luck. It is really hard to get away from AA when you have KK unless the ace flops. In STT you stack tends not to be deep enough.