Turn Raisers (What to Do?)

[lehighguy]

For anyone who read my post yesterday I apologize. I realize now why you don't post so many hands at once. Anyway I looker through them all and I realized I have no clue what I'm doing when someone raises the turn and I have a hand like TPTK. Here are 4 hands.

Hand 1:
This guy is loose preflop (VPIP 60%), but conservative post flop (oddly enough being a blind doesn't make him any more likely to play the hand). If he misses the flop he folds. He only bets when he has a hand. I can't tell if his raises mean he has the nuts or a draw of some other hand. I don't know if throwing this away is right. I may have made a mistake. I could use some help on this hand.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG posts a blind of $5.
MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG (poster) folds, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11.20 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. MP wins 11.20 BB. </font>

Hand 2:
Hero is UTG, converter wont work for some reason. The jist here is I have top pair top kicker but don't know what do do against the turn bet and raise.
Dealt to HERO [ Qd Ac ]
HERO raises [$10].
cool_hand99 folds.
DougPerry folds.
Nelly37 calls [$8].
LEE6666 calls [$5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, Qs, 6s ]
Nelly37 checks.
LEE6666 checks.
HERO bets [$5].
Nelly37 calls [$5].
LEE6666 calls [$5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
Nelly37 bets [$10].
LEE6666 raises [$20].
HERO folds.
Nelly37 raises [$20].
LEE6666 calls [$10].
** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]
&gt;You have options at Table 12632 (6 max) Table!.
Nelly37 bets [$10].
LEE6666 calls [$10].
Nelly37 shows [ Kc, 8c ] high card king.
LEE6666 shows [ Tc, Qh ] a pair of queens.
LEE6666 wins $123 from the main pot with a pair of queens.

Hand 3:
Fold turn, fold river?
Have outs on turn worth it?
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB folds, MP calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Hand 4:
Re-raise turn?
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $5.
MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, Hero (poster) calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Thank you for you patience

[balkii]

hand 1: since I have position, I call his checkraise on the flop and see the turn card, planning on raising a blank.

hand 2: i play the same. you can't fold, and its tough to 3-bet unless you have a read that he will often raise turn with one pair or less

hand 3: fold?!? i raise the turn, he usually have a very weak hand when he plays like that.

hand 4: dont post UTG. raise the flop and take it from there. AK should give quite a bit of action so i'd wouldnt slow down for a bit either.

[Nemesis]

Interesting analysis of hand 3, can you elaborate a little more for me. I would not have raised the turn, and I always jump at the opportunity to be even MORE agressive. I don't see what it is that he's doing that's "very weak".

[lehighguy]

Thanks for your help. I'm really interested in being able to tell when my TPTK is beat. Sometimes a turn raise is just someone else with top pair (Hand 2) and other times its some random two pair or trips (Hand 3).

Also what would you do on a hand like:
Hero: AKo
UTG Raise
CO Call
BB call

Flop: A, 7, 3 (two of a suit).
BB check, hero bet, co call, bb fold.
Turn: 8(suit unimportant).
Hero bets, CO raises.
Hero???
I feel like 3betting cause he has ace and i have better kicker (his cold call preflop makes me think this). However, many loose player will cold call with things like suited connectors and low pocket pairs. What do I do in a situation where I'm against on of these loose players.

[BradL]

Do you know that this player is the loose player that called with pp that flopped trips or just made 78 two pair? If you know he has those hands feel free to fold. Since you dont know he has those hands call the raise and check the river if unimproved and you feel he is likely to bet a range of hands, if you know him to be a tricky player who maay raise the turn with a weaker ace then feel free to bet the river.

-Brad

[helpmeout]

1. Standard

2. This is what reads are for.

3. Standard, the board is too coordinated to raise the turn, I'd call down and hope for the best.

4. 3bet preflop, A8o is better than most button open raises. Raise the turn or at least the river, getting SB to call the turn isnt the worst but I still think you are probably ahead of A5 on the river.

BTW the convertor gets the positions wrong a lot of the time at 6max so to make it work you need to correct the seat button is.

[lehighguy]

Well I'm not going to fold this hand. I'm wondering wether or not I should 3 bets or call down.

[balkii]

most of the time an opponent plays like that on this board he'll have a) a weak ace (you're winning) b) a pair and a gutshot (you're winning) c) a club draw (you're winning) or d) pure bluff (you're winning)

the favorite play of these guys is the checkraise, and he didnt do it here which makes me feel like he doesnt have a strong hand. failing to raise the turn here is costing you bets, he'll usually have a hand he'll pay 2 more bets with.

[BradL]

3betting the turn is bad IMO bc it puts more bets in when you are behind (he caps) and you either end up putting 40 more in, calling cap and calling river, or winning the hand with the raise for 1 or 2 bets less than you would have if you called and led the river. Calling the raise and leading the turn when you feel you have a better than 50% chance of being ahead puts 1 extra bet in when he raises you and calling the turn and checking the river when you feel there is a less than 50% chance you are ahead to put the minimum required bets in to showdown is ideal IMO.

-Brad