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View Full Version : A hand with an easy answer


adanthar
12-24-2004, 05:57 PM
This is based off a hand I just played and a few things I've seen people post lately. Hopefully, everyone who posts here should answer it the same way.

This is a Step 1, 10+1 SNG, or, I dunno, insert some lower buyin here. It's level 1 so you have no read.

Some dude limps UTG. You have AA-JJ in MP1 so you make it 60 and get an LP caller. UTG calls.

The flop is 886, 997 or TT5. It could have two suits or three but let's say it has two.

UTG bets 60 into the pot of 200. You raise to 150. He goes all in.

You...

Gigabet
12-24-2004, 06:01 PM
I'd call up doyle and see what he would do.

partygirluk
12-24-2004, 06:02 PM
I find this is almost always trips.

DVC Calif
12-24-2004, 06:14 PM
Fold (but this had to be decided before re-raising UTG). Most likely UTG has trips and is his protecting hand from straight/flush draws. Unlikely (but possible) that UTG flopped quads. Quads would become "calling stations" allowing oppoenents to bet into their nut hand.

Only outs Hero would have would be to catch the 2 outer to a full boat.

Steve

Voltron87
12-24-2004, 08:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd call up doyle and see what he would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd come over to 2+2, call up Gigabet, who would in turn call up Doyle, and break into my "time bank".

ilya
12-24-2004, 09:50 PM
I would call; level 1 low-buyin players will do this with too many hands besides trips to justify folding.

Phoenix1010
12-24-2004, 10:19 PM
I don't think I'd say that this hand has an easy answer. I would actually consider calling here. The main factors are the buy-in, the possible flush draw, the fact that you have 200 chips invested at the time of the push, and the fact that the Pusher opened the betting on the flop.

Against tough opponents, it's common for a preflop caller to lead into the raiser when they flop a strong hand. This is a strong play, but not an intuitive one. At the lower buy-ins, trips and sets are almost always slowplayed, often incorrectly. On a board like this, at the lower buy-ins, the person who opens the action on the flop is least likely to have trips. Furthermore, if they did bet with trips, they would be delighted at the raise, and probably just call. The raise all-in appears to desire a fold.

A weak opponent would likely make this play with any pocket pair, bottom pair, a flush draw, and perhaps some other hands. All of these possibilities are more likely than trips.

I really try not to get involved for all my chips in the early stages, so I might still lean towards folding, if it wasn't for the fact that you were already invested for a fourth of your chips. At that point, taking your chances becomes a much better option.

All in all, I'd say calling here is probably a profitable play in the long run.

Regards,
Steve

Jman28
12-25-2004, 03:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Step 1, 10+1 SNG,

[/ QUOTE ]

The strategies in these two tourneys are significantly different.

adanthar
12-25-2004, 03:49 PM
True, but the caliber of player is the same in both (if anything, it's worse in Step 1) and the play should be identical. You can argue that chips are less important in a Step but during L1 I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

Strollen
12-26-2004, 12:27 AM
I'd fold everything but Ace Ace.

The reason I'd treat AA seperately is I see three possible ways to win.

A. Your opponent is on the bluff.
B.He was limping on JJ, QQ, KK.
C.The AxS which got his bottom pair would likely make a bet of 60, and possibly would semibluff reraise because he thinks you are on two high cards and totally missed the raise.

texasrattlers
12-26-2004, 02:03 AM
I'd fold. Looks like trips or a set (full house) to me. And 1st round I think I would wait til I am sure I have the best of it. You still have 3/4 of your stack left.

ilya
12-26-2004, 02:11 AM
Oops, I thought it was 'AA,' not 'AA-JJ.' And I guess I must have thought that the pot was re-raised preflop or something. Because as it is, I fold.

p.s. I would have raised more preflop though. Maybe 100.

Scuba Chuck
12-26-2004, 05:07 AM
I wouldn't be caught in this situation as with a hand like AA, KK, or QQ, I would have raised more PF. With JJ, I would have limped & called.

Considering the level that we're playing, fishy $10+1, I call with AA-QQ and fold JJ (other). At the $33+3 level, I would more likely fold all hands.

I justify the call due to the probabilities that it's a bluff, which is common when the 2-3 fish per table are still present.

I would enjoy the critique.
Scuba

Scuba Chuck
12-28-2004, 07:15 PM
Adanthar, don't we get any of your wise advice on this...

cferejohn
12-28-2004, 10:02 PM
Call in a heartbeat. Most players who flop trips here are going to check-call, or maybe check-raise.

adanthar
12-28-2004, 10:18 PM
First off, I think I probably shouldn't have made the parameters that wide. Tossing in JJ and a TT5 flop in there is a little too much - that T is too high a card and JJ is a little too vulnerable even when ahead.

That said, I'm surprised that this many people said to fold. For the low buyins, and only for them, my answer is basically this: You're getting 2:1 on the call and there is no way in the world he has trips and is playing them that straightforwardly 2/3 of the time.

In the actual hand, I had QQ, the flop was 886, I called quickly, was shown 76 sooted (with a 3 flush!) and I think I eventually got a Step 5 buyin out of that tourney. Sometimes you're going to lose these, but more often than not this is a double up. The average low buyin Party fish simply doesn't play trips that fast.

The Yugoslavian
12-29-2004, 06:12 PM
I very well would bet a bit more with AA-JJ. At the low buyins players do not look at pot odds just absolute values of $ and will call 90 chips (100 carries a bit more psychological weight) just as easily as 60. Anyways, raising 60 should be fine. Post flop I'm assuming that the LP caller folds after you raise the pot?

The post flop raise is too weak if you're going to back down to an allin (which some people suggest) -- frankly your post flop raise is nothing more than a baiting raise -- the pot is now 410 and 90 for him to call (which is why I probably bet more if there are 2 or 3 to a flush -- as he can call my raise correctly if he has a flush draw). I'm not that worried about my opp. having trips. My raise post flop would be to ~ 250-300 (probably not allin as I figure to have the best hand and don't mind a call). With a raise to 250 the pot is now 510 and it's 190 for him to call -- not proper odds if chasing a flush draw.

When he goes allin at such a low level after the post flop raise, I now *highly* doubt he has trips or a full house or a made flush and put him on two pair, a flush draw, or overcards. I call and start up a new SNG if he shows trips.

Yugoslav

morgan180
12-29-2004, 07:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That said, I'm surprised that this many people said to fold. For the low buyins, and only for them, my answer is basically this: You're getting 2:1 on the call and there is no way in the world he has trips and is playing them that straightforwardly 2/3 of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

People at 10+1 love slow playing trips - I agree that they will more than likely check-[do something] rather than bet out.

I call, and if I'm wrong I fire up another one, If I'm right, well don't I look smart.

pshreck
12-29-2004, 07:54 PM
I hate to post after Adanthar gave his 'correct answer' (as he sees it), but I agree... this is such an easy call at this level, and I am pretty dissapointed so many people thought it was a fold? The villain played the hand like they would if they had some PP or paired the undercard... and not like they would if they flopped a big hand.

Another point... this is what makes the 10+1s so beatable, identifiying absolute BS all ins, when you are in fact 80%+ to win when you call it. If you are making folds in this spot and other similar ones where you think you must be dominated, you are forfeiting serious ROI at the lower levels.

By the way Adanth... you have exactly 1337 posts now... you are so LEEEEET.

fnord_too
12-29-2004, 11:36 PM
call