Am I the jerk?

if someone would be so kind as to review my play... i need to know if was justified.... or, if i am the reason good players go on tilt...


Game #109151892 - $0.50/$1 Hold'em - 2001/09/12-14:00:51 (CST)

Table "Tahiti" (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button


Seat 1: MEAN 1 ($27.25 in chips)

Seat 2: steveSLS ($45.50 in chips)

Seat 3: Trip Tenz ($14.50 in chips)

Seat 4: gototodd ($8.50 in chips)

Seat 5: Big Daddy K ($10.75 in chips)

Seat 6: Arthur Dent ($20.50 in chips)

Seat 7: Vegas-kid ($12.50 in chips)

Seat 8: rockon ($29.75 in chips)

Seat 9: index ($115.50 in chips)

Seat 10: LoneBrownPun ($29 in chips)

Arthur Dent: Post Small Blind ($0.25)

Vegas-kid: Post Big Blind ($0.50)

Dealing...

Dealt to index [ Jh ]

Dealt to index [ Jd ]

rockon : Raise ($1)

index : Raise ($1.50)

(here, i'm trying to get it short handed, knowing my jacks will do far better against fewer opponents...

knew nothing about 'rockon')

LoneBrownPun: Fold

MEAN 1 : Fold

steveSLS: Call ($1.50)

Trip Tenz: Fold

gototodd: Call ($1.50)

Big Daddy K: Fold

Arthur Dent: Fold

Vegas-kid: Fold

rockon : Raise ($1)

index : Call ($0.50)

steveSLS: Call ($0.50)

gototodd: Call ($0.50)

*** FLOP *** : [ 4d 6s Th ]

rockon : Bet ($0.50)

index : Raise ($1)

(here a desperate attempt to get it heads up)

steveSLS: Call ($1)

gototodd: Call ($1)

rockon : Raise ($1)

(at this moment I would bet my car that he is looking at A,A... was the call incorrect?)

index : Call ($0.50)

steveSLS: Call ($0.50)

gototodd said, "big slick any good?"

gototodd: Call ($0.50)

*** TURN *** : [ 4d 6s Th ] [ Js ]

rockon : Bet ($1)

index : Raise ($2)

(my money card.... check-raise?)

steveSLS: Call ($2)

gototodd: Fold

rockon : Raise ($2)

index : Raise ($2)

steveSLS: Call ($2)

rockon : Call ($1)

("no ace, no ace, no ace, no ace, no ace, no ace........")

*** RIVER *** : [ 4d 6s Th Js ] [ 8c ] (whew!)

rockon : Check

index : Bet ($1)

steveSLS: Fold

rockon : Call ($1)

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $27.75 | Rake: $1

Board: [ 4d 6s Th Js 8c ]

MEAN 1 didn't bet (folded)

steveSLS lost $7.50 (folded)

Trip Tenz didn't bet (folded)

gototodd lost $3.50 (folded)

Big Daddy K didn't bet (folded)

Arthur Dent lost $0.25 (folded)

Vegas-kid lost $0.50 (folded)

rockon lost $8.50 (showed hand) [ As Ac ] (a pair of aces)

index bet $8.50, collected $27.75, net +$19.25 (showed hand) [ Jh Jd ] (three

of a kind, jacks)

LoneBrownPun didn't bet (folded)


any comments appreciated....


index

I just have to say, what in the world are the callers doing in that hand.... especially the guy with "big slick", especially on the flop!


This is the reason why low limits are so very much beatable.


- Tony

nt

the flop raise was iffy.


The guy capped it and then bet out. Minus a read, he's got

AK(16),AA(6), KK(6), or QQ(6). Half the time you're beat, half

the time your ahead, and he or someone else still draws out on you before the river... lets say there are 4 big cards out in your 3 opponents' hands. 1 - 31/42*30/41 = 45%


Are you going to the river no matter what? If one over card comes? Two? I think if you do some math, even assuming the callers dont have much, you will start to doubt the flop raise.

If Im in late position, i might call the flop bet, taking a 22-1 shot for 18 -1 pot odds, and possibly going to the river if an AK read starts to seem likely. But right after the raiser, probably beat and a raise behind possible, my JJ is muckward bound.


Caveat 1: if you have _any_ sort of read that rockon is loose aggressive, to the river we go.


Caveat 2: In the heat of battle, Im sure there are times when Id play it the same way. But lately Ive been working hard on gettting rid of losers early, and I really havent thrown away too many winners. When I hit a miracle card after Ive mucked, it has bugged me less and less, and when the goods flip over, I enjoy the saved bet more than some pots I win.


Of course you should call his reraise, there's what, 25 small bets in then?


nice hit!


zooey

I'd say you played this hand perfectly, although I don't see how you would be able to check/raise the turn since the aggressor was acting in front of you.


I just wanted to point out that when you raise preflop at these limits, you're probably not gonna knock many people out. Anyone who was gonna play there hand for 1 bet will probably stay for 3 as well. Some players who would have called 1 bet will now cap it when faced with 3 bets, lol. So all you're really doing is building a bigger pot.


I'd be curious to know what other players here think of jamming hands like TT, JJ, or even QQ in a situation like this. Would it be a mistake to just call the original raiser here and see the flop? Is the difference between calling/reraising preflop here just a question of variance or is one obviously more correct than the other?


PG

"Are you going to the river no matter what?"


Most certainly not... in fact, the re-raise on the flop was designed (as mentioned) to make it heads up (it failed). I knew he had high cards, if the turn brought an Ace/King/Queen, or even just a pair to the board, I was outa there....


In hindsight, if i respected his play, I would seriously consider letting go of the jacks even before the flop, but again... with this low limit action... i really didn't know what he was raising with until it was completely spelled out for me...


Thanks again for the review...


index

"I'd say you played this hand perfectly, although I don't see how you would be able to check/raise the turn since the aggressor was acting in front of you."


I had already clicked "post message" by the time I caught this error.. :-)


"I'd be curious to know what other players here think of jamming hands like TT, JJ, or even QQ in a situation like this. Would it be a mistake to just call the original raiser here and see the flop? Is the difference between calling/reraising preflop here just a question of variance or is one obviously more correct than the other?"


My opinion... any time there's a chance you can limit the field (at all) with a hand that struggles in a multi-way pot, you have to raise.


index

who the f*** can bother reading such a long transcript anyway - I will stick to the easier questions...