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View Full Version : How much would you pay to double up on the first hand?


Marcotte
12-23-2004, 03:04 PM
Suppose you were guaranteed to double up on the first hand of a standard 10 player SNG (50-30-20)? How much would you pay for those chips? One buy-in? More? Less? Answer for $10/$20, $50, and $100/$200.

Or, to think about it another way, suppose a player is allowed to auction off his stack before the tourny starts. This is slightly different, because it allows opponents a chance at a guarenteed double up. In this case, I think the chips are worth a little bit more, because your gain is their loss - not so in the first case.

CardMinger
12-23-2004, 03:18 PM
I think it would have to be less than 1 buy-in at most levels as a double up doesnt really guarantee you placing ITM. Im sure someone here will come up with a much more mathematical reason and amount but this is just my quick 2 cents.

UMTerp
12-23-2004, 03:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think it would have to be less than 1 buy-in at most levels as a double up doesnt really guarantee you placing ITM. Im sure someone here will come up with a much more mathematical reason

[/ QUOTE ]

Because theoretically, an "average" player has a 50-50 chance of doubling his stack up. Since most of us here are presumabley better than average, we have a better than 50-50 chance to double our stacks. So it wouldn't make sense to pay more for the second half of the stack than the first one.

I'm not going to attempt to put a number on this either, but it would make a difference whether the extra money goes into the prize pool or not as well.

UMTerp
12-23-2004, 03:34 PM
And another reason that the second thousand is worth less that the forst thousand is the payout structure. Assuming 10 players of equal skill level, they each obviously have 10% of the prize pool equity witrh their inital stacks. If the structure was winner-take-all, one stack of 2000 vs. eight stacks of 1000 would have an equity of 20%. However, with a 50-30-20 payout, the 2000 stack only has an equity of 18.44%. So a skilled player would be foolish to spend more than .844 buy-ins to double up on the first hand. I'd imagine the correct answer for most players here is somewhere between 65% and 70% of a buy-in. That's just a guess though.

Marcotte
12-23-2004, 03:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to attempt to put a number on this either, but it would make a difference whether the extra money goes into the prize pool or not as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I'm looking for a number. Just some general discussion as to more/less and why. In my original question, the money's not going into the prize pool. Either you are guaranteed to knock someone out via normal play on the first hand, or a player auctions his chips and pockets the money.

If the money did go into the pool, it would be similar to a rebuy tournament. In that case, I think you can pay more than a buyin for the extra chips. Without the extra money in the pool you are effectively paying $20+$1 (if you pay one buy-in) for a shot at $50 (in a $10+1) with 1600 20% of the chips.

I also think the chips are worth more at Party and others with a small stack/fast blind structure. (But still less than a buyin unless the money goes in the prize pool.)

Irieguy
12-23-2004, 04:24 PM
Why? Is there a site that offers this option?

Irieguy

ChrisV
12-23-2004, 08:20 PM
The ICM puts the equity of doing this at 8.44% of the prize pool, so its worth 84.4% of the buyin+rake. That sounds about right to me.