A problem I've been having lately

[jon_1van]

This isn't a straight up hand post but it should do fine for this post.

Recently I've gotten back up into 3/6 after taking a break/cashing out

At these table you actually start to have to be thinking a bit harder.

So the problem I've been having lately is :: You are dealt a split higher pair. You keep firing away with your split Ks or whatever...and there is somebody calling you down.(this call down guy is half way decent)

Now 5th street comes along and mister call down pairs his door card and checks to you.

Do you check behind and then call down from there?
Do you bet?

I've been choosing bet, espically if I have live cards for the 2 pair.

But yesterday I got popped by the check raise 3 times. Sometimes I had the 2 pair already sometimes I didn't.

Questions ::
How do you make this decision?
Am I thinking too hard?
This might just be "how things go" I know

Shutting down after someone pairs their door card just feels kinda weak.

The only thing I can think of is to pay very close attention to whether my opponent can have a flush draw. Normally I only remember "flush draw im/possible" if there are only 1 of a suit out or like 5 of a suit.

[lstream]

If the guy is not really loose or a maniac, I would normally take the free card and see if I improve. His check would normally smell like a check raise to me. I am relativley new to the on-line world, so my play might be a little tighter than most though.

If he is a proven wild man who plays with next to nothing, then I might bet, if I have a good set of outs. I would be more likely to do this if it looked like he was trying to hit a straight or flush. In that case the paired door card is possibly bad news for him.

[Michael Emery]

Nothing is ever set in stone in this game. So if you seek an exact answer as to when/if to bet into a paired door on 5th I'm afraid no one will have one for you. Its a tricky game. Sometimes you'll look like a genius on 5th when you make an excellent value bet into a paired door, and others a fool when you get checkraised and call down to see trips.
I'll offer a few hints. Some of which you already know to look for:

Have you seen any of his pair cards exposed? On 3rd? If on 3rd would he care if his hand was slightly dead? If hes a good player he would. For example say in a tough game an ace raises and a queen calls. A soild player then calls with a Ten, but looking at a dead ten behing him. You can rest assured its not tens he called with.

How live are their flush cards?

Did they limp or raise coming in?

What are there typical starting standards?

Are they capable of making a "move" like checkraising you on 5th without trips? Will they do it with two pair? One pair and maybe an overcard? Just one pair as a bluff?

Of course I would be much more inclined to bet (usually I will unless I'm against a tricky opponent who I think is dying to checkraise me) with a hidden two pair on 5th when checked to. If you just have one pair like (K7)K25 vs. (??)T5T rainbow your approx. a 65-35 fav. if he only has tens. Against two pair your slightly behind, and trips a big dog.
My point being, you dont lose much by checking every time here with one pair. I'd just assume wait and see his action on 6th. in a lot of instances. Many opponents are tricky enough to try to set up the checkraise on 5th in this scenario. On 6th they get scared of giving another free card and bet. Sometimes with trips, sometimes with two pair, sometimes with just their open pair figuring you checked so they must be ahead. Its a rare opponent tricky enough to check 5th and 6th with trips however. Meaning if its checked to you again on 6th usually bet if you dont smell a trap....but then again nothing in this game is set in stone. Sorry there is no easy/definitive answer.

Mike Emery

[MRBAA]

Well, I've played a bit of Empire/Party 3-6 of late and most of the players aren't that good. But if a reasonable opponent is calling me in a heads up pot, there's a good chance he has a pocket pair or draw -- he doesn'thave to have a lower split pair. So if I have two pair on fifth I'll bet. If I still have only one, I'll check, figuring I'm not giving up much since there's a good chance he has at least two pair. If one of his door cards is out elsewhere, I'll be more likely to bet.

[BeerMoney]

HaHa. I just ran into this situation a few minutes ago, and I bet, and felt like an absolute moron.

Here's why:

He's been calling with something, right? So, If he has 2 pair, or trips, he's the one giving the free card. If he had some sort draw, so be it, give them a free card. I think most often, you are behind here, and are the one giving the free card. When they do have trips, and you get checkraised, you just lost two bets when you could have gotten away without putting in any bets.

Now if you already have a big two pair, and they might have two pair as well, it really isn't that big of a deal to give away a free card, cause they only have a few outs..

I think betting out is "putting them on a hand you can beat" and is kind of stubborn.

[patrick dicaprio]

if you have two pair bet again. if you dont then check. clearly if a weak/non-creative player is checking and callng you then pairs his door card you would expect him to bet. so be suspicious if he doesnt.

Pat

[jon_1van]

Thanks for the posts,
I think you guys are all thinking what I thought but didn't do. Checking behind isn't hurting much unless you can be sure to put them on some kinda flush draw/straight draw.

I just couldn't bring myself to check behind. I don't want to be one of those players that completely shuts down at every possible scare card...but there is such a thing as being prudent.

[timmer]

The player’s tendencies and the third street action are two very important things that I look at. Another is how well the opponent plays and the relative size of the pot. As well as the other board cards played.

Your concern should be, did you make your best decision based on the information presented

Too many players seem to worry about losing one bet or even one hand. Losing for a session, a week, a month. These are all short term instances when compared to a life time of poker play.

I just cant give you many quick and dirty guidelines about this kind of problem.

Stud is just too complex for that and by doing so I feel you would be shortchanged.

Keep studying, Playing and analyzing the game and don't fret too much over some small short term set backs.

That and Try to play to the best of your ability all the time


Play well and prosper

timmer