PP fav hand & hand advice

One of my favorite humorous hands this month. No...not because even a

blind squirrel gets a nut now and then.. and not even because it meant

taking down a nice pot from "you know who" when I was running behind...

(ahem, he was outplaying me heads up before Painter arrived...), it is

one of my favs because it is SO DAMNED TYPICAL of Paradise, to have

boards develop this way! The fact that it helped me and worked against a

"PP isn't fixed you moron" Skeptic Naysayer, was a somewhat amusing

irony.


Following this is also another hand with a question about shorthanded

play?


comments=Game #105655289 - $20/$40 Hold'em - 2001/08/31-00:50:43

(CST)


Table "Jamaica" (real money) -- Seat 6 is the button


Seat 5: BaaadBeet ($325 in chips)


Seat 6: LastChance ($1,074 in chips)


Seat 8: painter ($787 in chips)


painter : Post Small Blind ($10)


BaaadBeet: Post Big Blind ($20)


Dealing...


Dealt to BaaadBeet [ Kh ]


Dealt to BaaadBeet [ Qh ]


LastChance: Raise ($40)


painter : Call ($30)


BaaadBeet: Raise ($40)


LastChance: Raise ($40)


painter : Call ($40)


BaaadBeet: Call ($20)


*** FLOP *** : [ 4h 6h 5s ]


painter : Bet ($20)


BaaadBeet: Call ($20)


LastChance: Raise ($40)


painter : Raise ($40)


BaaadBeet: Call ($40)


LastChance: Call ($20)


*** TURN *** : [ 4h 6h 5s ] [ 7h ]


painter : Bet ($40)


BaaadBeet: Raise ($80)


LastChance: Raise ($120)


painter : Fold


BaaadBeet: Raise ($80)


LastChance: Call ($40)


*** RIVER *** : [ 4h 6h 5s 7h ] [ 3s ]


BaaadBeet: Bet All-in ($25)


LastChance: Call ($25)


*** SUMMARY ***


Pot: $829 | Rake: $1


Board: [ 4h 6h 5s 7h 3s ]


BaaadBeet bet $325, collected $829, net +$504 (showed hand) [ Kh Qh ]

(a flush, king


high)


LastChance lost $325 [ 8h 8c ] (a straight, four to eight)


painter lost $180 (folded)


Oy Vey


************************************************** **************************


Question on this 3 way shorthanded, hand. I don't play heads up or quasi

heads up much, other than the final stages of tourneys, so I am

struggling with proper strategy there.


Obviously the pre flop raise with the Ace was correct.

But...with the flop all raggedy, was I way too conservative not betting

out the flop and/or

not betting or check raising the turn? I think I was still too stunned

by the gift of

the earlier flush to play this correctly. In my opinion I shouldhave bet

the flop.

If they failed lay down their hands, I should have bet the turn, or

possibly check raised it,

representing 10, big kicker.


Playing too tight?


comments=Game #105655582 - $20/$40 Hold'em - 2001/08/31-00:51:59

(CST)


Table "Jamaica" (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button


Seat 5: BaaadBeet ($908 in chips)


Seat 6: LastChance ($729 in chips)


Seat 8: painter ($547 in chips)


LastChance: Post Small Blind ($10)


painter : Post Big Blind ($20)


Dealing...


Dealt to BaaadBeet [ 7d ]


Dealt to BaaadBeet [ Ac ]


BaaadBeet: Raise ($40)


LastChance: Call ($30)


painter : Call ($20)


*** FLOP *** : [ 2s 6h 5h ]


LastChance: Check


painter : Check


BaaadBeet: Check


*** TURN *** : [ 2s 6h 5h ] [ Td ]


LastChance: Check


painter : Bet ($40)


BaaadBeet: Fold


LastChance: Fold


painter : Winner -- doesn't show cards


*** SUMMARY ***


Pot: $119 | Rake: $1


Board: [ 2s 6h 5h Td ]


BaaadBeet lost $40 (folded) [ 7d Ac ] (high card ace)


LastChance lost $40 (folded)


painter bet $80, collected $159, net +$79

i would like to defend my play in this particular hand. for starters, based solely on the fact that there are only 3 ppl in this particular game is the reason i bet the 88 so strong. i did not think anyone had the flush at that point and figured no one would beat my straight (perhaps tie but with only two 8s left i wasn't so worried). additionally if i did have the loser at the time (which i didnt think i did) i still had one out in the deck for a straight flush. and i know about the baadbeet pp theory, i just plain assumed my 1 outer was coming.


the only problem i really have is that now scrub boy has bragging rights over me. now he can say he beat me heads up. but i must say, props to false-accusation boy for even sitting at those stakes.


-LC.

***it is


one of my favs because it is SO DAMNED TYPICAL of Paradise, to have


boards develop this way!***


What is it that you find so astounding about this board, exactly? Is it the 1.9-1 shot that your four flush would become an actual flush? Is it the 43-1 shot that the card which gave you the flush would give LC a str8 at the same time? Is it the 286.5-1 shot that the board would be a str8 with at least 3 cards of the same suit?


I was playing at True Poker a few days ago at the play money tables, and the players were complaining that the boards were juiced there. One player commented, "You can predict what the turn and river will be, just figure out which card will make the straight or flush." Well folks, that's right, you will be correct an overwhelming percentage of the time if you guess that a card will come either on the turn or river which will make a str8 or flush possible. But what do you expect? Do you think the board should always be such that trips is the nuts? Do you even think that trips will be the nuts after the river card more than a tiny percentage of the time? Let's say the flop is QJ3 rainbow, in order for the turn not make a str8 or flush or boat possible, it would have to be a 7,6,5,4 or 2, which gives a 20/49 chance. That seems pretty high, but watch what happens: If a 6,5 or 4 comes up, there is no card that can come on the river which doesn't make a str8 or a flush or a boat possible. So that leaves only a 7 or a 2 on the turn, and the other on the river. Also notice that for 3 of the sevens (or twos) that might come up on the turn, there are now only 3 twos (or sevens) which can come on the river so that no flush is possible. So the odds of there not being a possible str8 or flush in this case are: (2/49)*(4/48) + (6/49)*(3/48) = 1.1%, so you will be right in your prediction nearly 99% of the time. This has nothing at all to do with the boards being "juiced".

Why didnt you think anyone has the flush? Badbeet was calling the flop quite passively, with all the action. Would he do that with just overcards? Looks to me you certainly cant rule out a flush, especially when he comes to life on the turn (he could have a set though, most likely 6's(straight dont seem too likely)). I wouldnt say your 3-bet is wrong, but I surely think you have to consider folding when it gets capped. Or you must have some reason that badbeat is capable of making plays like this with less than a hand that has you beat. Can you give some insights on this, because I dont know Badbeet? Your single out could have put him on incredible tilt, and lots of posts here about Paradise though :-)


I think you played the rest of the hand good. I see no problem in getting aggressive with 88 shorthanded.


Regards

>>>the only problem i really have is that now scrub boy has bragging rights over me. now he can say he beat me


heads up. but i must say, props to false-accusation boy for even sitting at those stakes. <<<


"Scrub boy"? Hmmm, I've been called a lot of things but...Oh but I digress and would NEVER want to initiate a pissin contest!


Instead, I must say, "scrub boy" does not have "bragging rights" at all, since "scrub boy" plainly stated he was being outplayed heads up by LC prior to his flush draw coming through. A nice hand no doubt, but a nice hand for moi no doubt, but a single nice hand does not a competition make. I left with "positive" chips, but not to "quit winners". More because it had become 3 handed and I didn't figure myself to be in a favorable situation where I had the best of it. Just thought it would be fun to sit for a few, and it was.


Are you an excellent heads up player? I say yes. Was I being outplayed when we were heads up? It wasn't a long enopugh session to know for certainty, and I didn't like my cards much, BUT, I had the strong impression I was being outplayed. The stacks certainly indicated as much before the flush hand.


OK.