Becoming a winning player

In May, I deposited $50 in at Planet Poker, played in full .25/.50 games until I had won $50. Then I cashed out my $50 stake and slowly started to build a bankroll.

I spent a lot of time in full .25/.50 games, made a lot of mistakes, read the books and gradually got better.

In the last month, I feel I'm finally playing consistently good poker. I sometimes come across players who I think are better than me, or at least as good, but not that many. I'm now playing in $1/$2 5-max games at planet.

I've stopped playing a lot of dumb draws that pot odds don't support. I don't make as many stupid bluffs. I am more selective in which starting hands I'll play. I pay more attention to position. I am more apt to bet or fold, rather than call, and I look for chances to slow-play and checkraise to jack up the pots I win.

Sometimes I am able to read hands - not very often, but sometimes.

I am up $700 since May - mostly won in the last month. I've just cashed out $200, my first cashout, and plan to keep skimming anything above $500 every week or so.

For now, I'm comfortable at this level.

I have a few questions that I hope more experienced winning players can answer for me.


1. It seems to me that when I do try to move up to $3/$6 and $2/$4, I run into tougher players. I think I'm an OK player, but not good enough to regularly win money from really tough players.

Do the players tend to be tougher at those levels, or am I just a bit overwhelmed by the step up in bet size?


2. Am I missing better action at other sites? I don't mind Planet's software, and there server is working OK these days, but I can't always find a max-5 game at the levels I want to play. I don't relish the idea of building up a bankroll on Paradise, but am I missing out on better action and more game selection? At Planet - at least in the hours I play - I can't pick and choose between games.


3. I'm kind of lazy about keeping records. I did keep a list of player names and their playing styles, but I never seemed to run into them. Is it really worthwhile? How about keeping records of duration of sessions, money won or lost, at what limit? Is that really going to help me?


4. It seems to me I can win consistently about two or three times in a row, then I have a small losing session, then back to winning. Does this seem normal? I know that mathematically, variance can be very wide, but in practical terms, does this seem about right?


I appreciate all replies.

Congrats! You've done very well considering the limit your playing. One thing about playing low limits that I've learned, don't expect $500 weekends (I had that once) playing 1/2 and .50/1! Most nights you win $10-$30, maybe $50... some nights you lose $10 or $30, or more... If you play right you hope it evens out on the positive side. /images/smile.gif


1. Tougher players maybe. You should be able to tell if the players are tougher. I'd guess they are, but with your experience, just watch the table and see, I'm sure you can tell. Lots of freeflop raising (less limping), fewer showdowns seen, indicate a tough table (course watch for maniacs). Passive loose players are great.


2. Paradise has a lot of 5 player max tables. Personally I like full tables. I only play shorthanded when it's a full table breaking up, and the opponents are worse than me. (sometimes I get angry at a guy who puts a beat on me and keep playing him even though we are about even or he might be a little better than me...)


3. If you think it's worthwile, I guess. Keeping track of sessions is definitely worthwhile though.


4. Yes that's right. You'll have week long or even month long losing sessions...


I'm sure others can add better advice... I'm a low limit Paradise player, full table, Hold'em, some Omaha8, and rarely Stud hi. Don't like the tournies...


- Tony

YOU are full of bologna.


Planet's software sucks SO BAD is ridiculous. You are obviously a plant to try and convince people to come to planet.


If you are beating 1-2 for a couple bills a week, the 3-6 is a pushover and you wouldn't have any trouble.


As someone who cant win on Planet....little things like AA being 6 for 40...I find your story hard to swallow.


Why would you need to build a bankroll on Paradise.....just cashout and then deposit on Paradise. The games and players are much more rational than Planet. You will hardly if ever get disconnected, and the software doesnt suffer any weird incompatibilities.


Whenever I hear glowing reports about Planet I know it's bullshit, noone I've talked to is happy with the software or games or fellow players. It's Plunger's paradise.

i do not see what players do not like at planets software i have never had any problems . if you dont like it dont play there its as simple as that .i do not play at indian casinos because they still allow smoking so i play at other LA casinos instead .i do not berate posts on this site .allso if someone says he wins thats up to him.who is he kidding anyway if its not true .its funny that i see a lot off winning stories on this site .my story would be the opposite and ido keep records .lots of luck to CURIOUS .

What kind of plant do you think he is? Is he one of those annuals we will never see again. Could he be one of those green leafy indoor plants that die instantly when you forget to water them one month.


I think he might be a newbie checking out new poker sites besides the one he has started on and maybe looking in on poker forums.


Boy did he get lucky to stop at 2+2 first, where the civilized people discuss poker. If he had gone to rec.gambling.poker they might have ripped him a new ass for even suggesting Planet's software was just OK, then pointed out writing and spelling mistakes.


Why don't we give a self-proclaimed newbie a chance to see some of the good things about this forum before we try to run him off for posting what concerns him. He may have other talents we need, like computer geek stuff.


Please don't tap on the aquarium glass. It disturbs the fish.


Have a nice day.


MS Sunshine


p.s. I'll step down off my soapbox now.


MS Sunshine

I agree completely MS, I jumped on him because it smacks of being part of the marketing wave Planet is starting up to try and save their business. I've played considerable hours on planet lately to be Q'd for the freerolls and sitting at the tables talking to players there is alot of disatisfaction. Why do they still play there....usually the reason is they do even worse at Paradise, so they play Planet.


I apparently suk at the freerolls...17th place 5 times in a row. But that's another story. As an aside, the $100 in chips to start tourny's are a serious crap shoot, very little play for your $...though freerolls are free, but you know what I mean. If they had any competence they'd realize you need to give people alot of play to make them think its fun and worth bothering with. Instead it's a basic frustration. Planet has no business acumen now or ever. Caro et al have NO CLUE how to setup and run quality tournaments, its quite pathetic...and I HAVE given it a good try in search of redeeming value.


The software is horrible, and given the fact they've been at it for 3 years now...they have NO EXCUSES for why it still stinks and has so few features. Given the fact thier competitor Paradise is 90% of the market, what reason can there be for not trying to improve and compete? The disconnection rate is very high, entire tables full of players are suddenly offline many times during the day. You cant play more than one game, you can't even WATCH a second game to scope out the play. I've run into a bunch of incompatibilities with things like outlook express, so reading email while on Planet is a no no for me. It doesn't get along with Paradise, tends to currupt the color palette in 32bit or 16bit color mode.


I do apologize if this guy is legit but it smells fishy. Planet is I believe doomed and those with fresh pokerspot memories might think twice. I predict we'll see a bunch of people coming out of the woodwork to extoll the virtues of Planet in the near future, they have to do something to try and attract new business. I just wanted to make sure some reality was present in the discussion.

I also hate the software and all the disconnects. Planet, with their current software, should try cutting their rake to hold onto the business they have.


MS Sunshine

Whoa!


Why do I say Planet's software is OK? Maybe it's because I've never played any other sites. Maybe if I try Paradise I'll decide Planet's terrible.


That's why I'm frigging asking.


I get angry with the disconnections, but they don't seem to happen as often since the latest patch.


I don't give a fig for Planet vs. Paradise, except that I want to know where I can make money. I do get the feeling that I really have to give Paradise a try.


As for anyone suggesting I'm lying when I say I've won this money, they can shag themselves. What kind of sad person would write a message like mine to make themselves feel good?


I'm looking for advice from people who have been at this for longer than I have. No reason you should give it to me, but you ought to have more sense than to accuse someone you don't know of lying.


Thanks to those who offered sincere assistance.


Curious

Its not you making yourself feel good Cur, its Planet having employees post nice reports about them trying to save their sorry asses from oblivion. But I stand corrected, and apologize.

I play and have played paradise every day coming up to 2 years. I have also played planet.I personally think that planets games generally are alot more passive than paradise.That usually means alot less swings and more like a "live"game.Planets software is way slower and disconnects (which aren't as bad as they used to be) are higher than paradise.Planets cashouts used to take 4-6 days (which I loved) and I never had any problem cashing them.But in the last couple months my last 2 cheques took almost 2 weeks to come each.What a joke -they have crappier software,less games and youd think that the best way to compete with paradise would be to either have speedy cashouts,lost of player promotions,lower rake or better software.They have none of the above -I myself am running out of reasons to play there.

I would say that if you are consistently beating the games at Planet you should seriously consider moving to Paradise, if for no other reason than table selection. You can instantly jump between tables at paradise, and you can watch as many games as you want to see which is best. That alone could help increase your winnings once you get used to the site and the players. One thing, though, is that Paradise's software runs faster than planet's so you will see more hands per hour and you will experience larger swings (also for the reason tony said, i.e. more aggressive palyers, on average). However, because you are seeing more hands per hour, you will be able to make more money per hour. There are always 5max games going, so you should have no problem there.


You should keep session records, because it will allow you see how the swings play out, and will be useful if you decide to calculate you standard deviation. Also, it's a good way to keep yourself serious about the game, I find I've started playing better since I started keeping track of my sessions, I guess it helps keep me disciplined at the table.

Thanks to all who offered advice.


I'm going to try Paradise.


By the way, I find the postings on this site very helpful.

Hi


Here's some answers to you questions...


1. I have only played significant hours at Paradise. I don't think there's a great deal of difference in skill level between

1-2 and 2-4. The 3-6 players are a little bit better as a whole, but still horrendous in the grand scheme of things and fairly easily beaten. Stay at 1-2 for a little while longer anyway though, because your bankroll is small enough to get wiped out on 2-4 if you happen to encounter even a moderate losing streak.


2. I think the general consensus (conspiracy theorists aside) is that Paradise Poker is the best overall poker site at this time.


3. I don't keep written records on players. If you play a lot of hours you get to know the regulars pretty quickly. Aside from that, people play a little differently every day so it's probably more important to determine what's gong on today rather than last week. I rely on my memory, and beyond that I just assume that anyone I don't know is probably a weak player.


4. A few wins and a loss, repeated over and over, sounds pretty much like a winning player's routine (I'm thinking long sessions here). You should encounter far more winning streaks than losing streaks.


Good Luck!