I meant to call the blinds, not a raise I swear!!

[woodguy]

Playing a SnG to keep my mind occupied while in a MTT.

I'm on the button so if its not raised, I'm going to see this flop.

I go to hit the "pre-call" button right when it gets raised and I end up calling a decent sized raise with a fairly trashy hand.
After this hand EVERYONE was calling my raises and I had all the chips before level 5. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t595)
CO (t575)
Hero (t940)
SB (t725)
BB (t545)
UTG (t665)
UTG+1 (t585)
MP1 (t2595)
MP2 (t775)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t100</font>, Hero calls t100, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls t70.

Flop: (t375) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets t150</font>, Hero calls t150, MP1 folds.

Turn: (t675) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets t100</font>, Hero calls t100.

River: (t875) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, CO calls t225 (All-In).

Final Pot: t1350

CO had QQ.

Never flopped quads before....had to post it. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Regards,
Woodguy

[david050173]

Did you remember to type in "I had a feeling" in the chat box?

[Lloyd]

love it

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you remember to type in "I had a feeling" in the chat box?


[/ QUOTE ]

Classic

[Mr_J]

yeh I laughed at this. I bet QQ loved it /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[ilya]

Umm, were you really planning to limp with 65o? I understand that you have the button and it's cheap and everything, but...small, unsuited connectors?

[raptor517]

if youre trying to learn proper sng play, dont limp with 56. ever. if your wasting time having fun, great hand. great fun.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
if youre trying to learn proper sng play


[/ QUOTE ]

I have purchased a $10,000 vechile with my winnings.

I will see the flop for the price of the BB on the button with alot of different hands, its my stlye and it works for me.

Position can be more important than cards, espcially when the flop doesn't hit anyone hard, which is a significant amount of the time.

Regards,
Woodguy

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Umm, were you really planning to limp with 65o? I understand that you have the button and it's cheap and everything, but...small, unsuited connectors?


[/ QUOTE ]

II see a cheap flop with one card on the button. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regads,
Woodguy

[Phoenix1010]

Must be said: regardless of the price tag on the car you bought, you are not above advice.

I won't say it's a hard fast law, but it's generally accepted that constantly limping any two cards on the button, or anywhere else, is a leak in single table tourney play.

You don't seem to be a serious STT player, and it doesn't seem that you posted this hand for advice (not sure what the actual reason is), but since you responded to the advice given by others, I felt I would back it up. Any experienced player will advise against this action at this level of an SnG. Stacks are generally just not deep enough to make tricky plays without endangering significant portions of your stack. There is a longer discussion about the virtues of playing every hand on the button, but it doesn't seem you're interested.

I'm sure you're a very skilled player, and I'll assume that your style of play has "worked for you" in the past. It irks me however, when people justify plays or strategies with an empty declaration of past success. No one questioned how much money you're making from poker, or even questioned how good of a player you are in general. A few people did bring up that you made a questionable play, even if there hadn't been a raise in front of you. If your best defense for that or any other play is to bring up your nice car, I'd say you should think about it a bit more.

There are millionaires and WSOP champions posting on this site. I don't think I've read any posts from them saying that their play was correct because they just bought a yacht. If they did, they just wouldn't be as respectable. Like I said, nothing against you personally, but I didn't like your response. Hope you get my point.

Since I posted this rant, I guess I can't brag about the sweet cell phone I bought recently with my extra poker money. Woops. Just did.

Regards,
Steve

[The Venetian]

Cranky?

I'm pretty sure I didn't see anything about him calling with "any 2 cards", just that he's planning on seeing a flop with 65o from the button for less than 1/30th of his stack after a couple of limpers.

Seeing a flop with 65 is much different from seeing one with K8 or 92. You know what you're looking for and if you don't see it, you get out.

I don't think there's any question that a thinking player could play this hand profitably in this spot.

I would argue that ignoring implied odds is a much bigger leak in many more people's SNG play.

[Phoenix1010]

Not the least bit cranky. Thought I made it clear I was responding to his answer to the advice of previous posters. As I said, the actual play is debatable, and I'd be happy to talk about it in a more strategy-centered thread.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Cranky?

I'm pretty sure I didn't see anything about him calling with "any 2 cards"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, he only needs 1 card. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[woodguy]

Phoenix,

My response was a little harsh as I felt a little slighted that the poster inferred I was just learning the game.
My response was also a little immature, but I wanted to prove the point the I know how to play and that my results over time are good, but given the choice I wouldn't repond like that again.

As to the rest of your post:

[ QUOTE ]
Any experienced player will advise against this action at this level of an SnG. Stacks are generally just not deep enough to make tricky plays without endangering significant portions of your stack.


[/ QUOTE ]

As the Ventetian pointed out, calling the BB would have cost me 3.2% of my stack, my stack is pleny deep for this play, and calling on the button is not "tricky", check/raising on a pure bluff is tricky.

Nowhere in your post did you mention the odds I would have been getting in calling the blinds. I was looking at 4-1 if the SB completes and the BB checks and I had the button, 5-1 if the CO calls. These odds are more than sufficient to see a flop with two connecting cards on the button.

Any experienced player wouldn't go off on my play without including odds and position in their reply.
Nor would any experienced player make a sweeping statements like:

[ QUOTE ]
but it's generally accepted that constantly limping any two cards on the button, or anywhere else, is a leak in single table tourney play


[/ QUOTE ]

This is far too general and obtuse to really mean anything.

I did respond to Ilya by saying I would even play one card, but I think you should know that was tongue-in-cheek.

Like the Venitian said llmping hands like K8o or 92o is just wrong as even if you hit your flop you many not have best hand. I know what flop I was looking for

Odds and postion should play the most important role in determining what cards you play, not just the cards themselves.

[ QUOTE ]
If your best defense for that or any other play is to bring up your nice car, I'd say you should think about it a bit more.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must have missed this statement then, I really don't how as it was right below the car statement.

[ QUOTE ]
Position can be more important than cards, espcially when the flop doesn't hit anyone hard, which is a significant amount of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
There are millionaires and WSOP champions posting on this site.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've been a member since April, do you think that I may know that by now?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've read any posts from them saying that their play was correct because they just bought a yacht


[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't defending my play, I was impling that I'm not just "learning" the game.

[ QUOTE ]
You don't seem to be a serious STT player


[/ QUOTE ]

How did you infer that?

[ QUOTE ]
It irks me however, when people justify plays or strategies with an empty declaration of past success


[/ QUOTE ]

Again, wasn't defending my limp call with that statement, just my fragile ego.

[ QUOTE ]
A few people did bring up that you made a questionable play, even if there hadn't been a raise in front of you. If your best defense for that or any other play is to bring up your nice car, I'd say you should think about it a bit more.


[/ QUOTE ]

You really can't get past that stament can you? Read the rest of the response.

[ QUOTE ]
it doesn't seem that you posted this hand for advice (not sure what the actual reason is),


[/ QUOTE ]

The reason was the comedy factor, I guess I'll have to point that out should I decide to post another funny incident. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Good Day,
Woodguy

[Phoenix1010]

I typed out a fairly long discussion on the value of limping with any hand (I know your one card comment was a joke, but I took it to mean that any two cards would do) on the button in a single table tourney, before I realized that this was not a strategy post, and it would probably be out of place. I included a small summary of my problem with the action, because I felt it would be helpful to say that I actually agreed with the previous advice, but I realize now that that was ultimately useless since I didn't post any calculations or in-depth analysis. I wouldn't say I "went off" on your play, but if I did, I apologize. I also wanted to let it be known that the play is ultimately debatable, while it may be against general consensus for "proper" SnG play. If my comment sounded sweeping, again I apologize. There is rarely an absolutely correct strategy in any form of poker.

My problem, and the point of my post, was with your initial response to someone's suggestion that there was a problem with limping any two cards on the button. That's why I spent the most time talking about that sentence, not because I had any trouble "getting past" it. I inferred you were not a serious STT player because you said you were playing an STT to keep busy while you were playing an MTT. It seemed like there was no reason to include that you were just playing it to keep your mind busy, other than to say that you don't normally play SnG's. I was careful to use the word "seem" instead of "are" because there was no way to be sure. I felt it was helpful to include this inference as an explanation for why I omitted the long discussion about limping weak hands being against traditional single table tournament strategy.

I don't know how long you've been a member of 2+2, and I don't know what you know about the other posters. I don't think it's necessary knowledge for me to make a point about the ettiquette of other posters. After all, my point wasn't that you don't know anything about 2+2, it was that far wealthier and more successful players refrain from making boasts about their success because they realize that such statements are meaningless.

I didn't completely ignore your statement on the value of position, but I felt that it was filed under "I won ten thousand dollars so I know what I'm talking about."

I realize now that you were just making a joke in defense, and it's definitely a harmless one. It didn't immediately come across that way, and I felt it was worthwhile to interject, just in case you were shirking advice on the basis of past success. My longwindedness can come across as a bit more offensive than I intend at times, and I apologize if it seemed that I was scolding you. Just thought it was a good point to bring up. Good day to you as well.

Regards,
Steve

[DVC Calif]

[ QUOTE ]
if youre trying to learn proper sng play, dont limp with 56. ever. if your wasting time having fun, great hand. great fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I beg to differ. While 56o certainly isn't a Group 1 starting hand, they are certainly live cards with potential. Given the position Woodguy had being button and the early blind levels, limping along with others would seem +EV.

Not that it makes it mathematically correct, but professionals such as Daniel Negreanu and Gus Hansen love playing small rags cheap because the flop more often than not are all rags. They have been very successful with that style of play and their final table finishes are the proof.

You need to change gears every so often to keep other players questioning whether you actually have a monster.

Besides, I have had my premium hands cracked more often by rags flopping two pair or straights more often than against other high PP making a set.

My two cents, Steve

[woodguy]

Thank you.

I just thought it was funny that a mistake turned into quads and I ended up stacking QQ with 56o.

edit: I hope that you understand that I was not defending my play with "the car", I was defending my record as a poker player to the guy who assumed that "I was just learning the game"

On a different level it would be like someone telling me to "keep working at business once you know what you are doing, you will be profitable", without seeing my financial statements.

Regards,
Woodguy