AQ flop a gutter

[Schizo]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero folds.

Turn: (4 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (6 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Should I of called this? I have 4 outs for the straight and maybe 3 for the ace?

[eric5148]

You should've bet the flop.

[Schizo]

Why? If the ace was good, I would of barely had the odds to call. Why should I bet?

[eric5148]

If you were going to call anyway, why not bet? Now you have no idea whether your opponent is value betting or bluffing. If your opponent raises, you can easily fold. You need to keep being the aggressor, people love to bet into preflop raisers who check the flop.

[eric5148]

Also, if you bet, there's a chance to win it right there.

BTW, 39 posts in your first three days. Very nice. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Avatar]

you MUST bet this flop.

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]

BTW, 39 posts in your first three days. Very nice. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the advice, I wouldn't of expected this.

None of these posts are in OOT or Politics btw.

[eric5148]

Good, stay away from OOT. Very addictive.

[Nick C]

With only two opponents, there's still some chance you have the best hand. Admittedly, with this flop, there's less chance than usual. However, some better hands, such as 77, might actually fold, fearing the king hit you.

Anyway, there are some advantages to betting the flop. One disadvantage is that you could get raised by a hand like QJ and then end up folding the best hand to a turn semi-bluff (or end up hanging around after catching the ace that makes your opponent's straight).

By the way, if you do bet the flop, you nearly have the immediate odds to call a raise with your gutshot alone. So I think you should call if raised.

Anyway, to answer your original question, if I checked the flop (and I would not auto-bet here), I would call getting 8:1, closing the action.

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, to answer your original question, if I checked the flop (and I would not auto-bet here), I would call getting 8:1, closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under what conditions would I not auto-bet?

[billuhbong]

how could you raise preflop in bb and not bet into the flop, ur representing a big hand even if u miss the flop most likely they'll fold unless they hit a pair, ur taking the initiative to raise preflop so take the initiative to use that aggresive position and bet em out. if both call on the turn and ur hand doesnt improve then u may wanna check.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, to answer your original question, if I checked the flop (and I would not auto-bet here), I would call getting 8:1, closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under what conditions would I not auto-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would bet most of the time in this spot. However, if there was hardly any chance of getting both of my opponents to fold here, and there was a very good chance that I'd get raised by anyone who caught a piece of the flop, I'd consider checking instead and calling one (but not two).

If MP2 was a LAG who was sure to bet if checked to, whether he had anything or not, I'd consider going for a checkraise and trying to get it heads-up (with the plan of calling down unimproved if I did get it heads-up).

So those are a couple of situations where I might check. I do think betting is usually best here, though. You raised preflop, and against just two opponents, you might as well bet the flop and hope they both fold. Anyone who doesn't have a pair of kings (and can't beat top pair) has to worry that that's what the flop gave you.

On the other hand, if I had four opponents with this hand and that flop, I would almost always check.

[W. Deranged]

You absolutely have to take a turn here. I agree with all the other previous posts that you should bet out here. My main point, though, is a question of odds. Sure, you are strictly getting 8 to 1 here, and you would need 10.5 to 1 (4 out of 46) to make this strictly correct to call but, you MUST CONSIDER IMPLIED ODDS!!!!!! If a Jack flops here, you are gold, and will make at the very minimum two big bets (so we're talking 11 to 1 effective odds), and perhaps more if you can maneuver a turn check-raise or get three players to the river. And that's not even considering that your aces are partial outs, meaning you may only need 8 or 9 to 1 effective odds anyway to merit a call.

So it's an easy call on the flop, and, as you are going to call and were the pre-flop raiser, you should go ahead and bet.

[spydog]

You need to bet this flop 100% of the time after raising PF. They both will fold more than 1 in 6 times, which makes this profitable from a folding equity standpoint. Throw in the chance that you will hit your J or A makes this an easy, easy bet.