AQ preflop 3bet/other awkwardness

[edtost]

pfr is 14 vpip/6 pfr over 180 hands, caller just sat down. should this be a preflop fold? flop fold?

every street just felt wrong.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

comments?

[billyjex]

PF 3-bet is a tough one.. I'm often lost with AQo against a TAG PF raiser whether to call, fold, or raise.

I think on the flop I'd fold when faced with a CC. BB bet out and probably hit some of the flop, and the PF raiser probably has you easily beat.

Once you get the A on the turn, I guess I'd just call down. But I could see popping him with a raise, to see if he'll 3-bet and easily has you beat.

[Grease]

I think PF is a very easy muck. He's in EP and a tight raiser. You're either slightly ahead (JJ, TT) ir wayyyyy behind. At best, he has AJs. The flop made me cringe. You have nothing but overs, a remote backdoor straight on a 2-flush board. You should have hit the fold button so fast. What would have been your action had a queen fallen on the river? Queen of diamonds? Ace of diamonds? I just don't think that you can proceed with this and it be profitable.

[sthief09]

the fact that you didn't raise the turn means that you should've folded the flop. see what I mean? your flop call depends on you having the best hand some of the time. you aren't getting odds to draw to your 2-3 outer, let alone 6 full outs. there needs to be something to compensate, which is having the best hand sometimes. there's no way you should be seeing the turn here

[edtost]

yup, the flop call was awful; it makes a lot more sense now. pf, should this be an easy muck, or was i not too far off?

[DrPublo]

14/6 over 180 hands looks like fairly reliable numbers, as far as PT numbers go. But 6% PFR means he's raising not very many hands. Realistically, from MP1 the only hand you're ahead of is possibly ATs and AJs. Players with 6% PFR aren't raising ATo or AJo in that spot. The rest of the hands he's raising with you're either in a race with or behind. Way behind.

On the flop, you have 6 outs to overcards before discounting, and a very weak backdoor straight draw. Given that the PFR is now raising again, I think he has at a minumum AK (trying to knock you out so he can win with just one pair if it hits) or an overpair. Both overpairs and AK have you in terrible shape. This is a must-fold situation.

I dont even know what to do with the turn. I'd probably raise given that you hit one of your miracle cards (offsuit ace), and then check behind on the river. If you get 3-bet on the turn it's a definite fold.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say MP1 had either AK (perhaps diamonds) or JJ.

The Doc

Edit: Afterthought. You also want to raise the turn to make the BB face two bets in case he has diamonds or an open ender.

[sthief09]

I 3-bet. he raised after 3 folds. a 6 PFR ain't that low. he's tight. you could get him to fold AK unimproved

[DrPublo]

True, I hadn't thought of that. This is why I suck. Even if he does have AK or AQ, against rags you can probably steal the pot from him on the turn IF you get it heads up between you two preflop. Having postflop aggression numbers on the guy would be the determining factor here.

The Doc

[nothumb]

Well, he's actually in MP. I think the three-bet is debatable based on whether or not his opponent is weak-tight or tight-aggressive postflop, sample size, and whether his range of hands increases when he opens from MP based on game texture, etc. I don't have a problem with a fold here if you don't feel you can play it profitably.

The easiest decision by far for me is to fold the flop. Hands where every street feels bad, I find, come in two varieties. The first is where you play a good hand like TT in a bad situation, like, UTG on a six-way flop against a couple of LAGs. The second is when you play a marginal hand or make a marginal call and are faced with a tougher decision on each of the subsequent rounds because there were no cards in the deck you really liked, few that would force you to fold and a pot big enough to string you along.

I think AQ becomes a marginal hand in this situation and the second description fits.

NT

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
pf, should this be an easy muck, or was i not too far off?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your instinct should be to muck AQ to a legitimate raise. I would have mucked it here. But you aren't too far off, for the reasons sthief gives. In general, wanting to fold AQ to a raise should, I believe, be your standard reaction.

/mc