How was this laydown [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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partygirluk

12-22-2004, 02:59 AM

Villain had been playing quite loose. I had seen him min raise UTG with JJ FWIW. He thought for a looong time before calling this preflop. I smelt a trap. How good is my nose?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button (t960)
SB (t3030)
Hero (t2495)
UTG (t2710)
MP (t1260)
CO (t3045)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, CO calls t100, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t250) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (t250) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t200, CO raises to t500, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t950
Main Pot: t650 (t650), won by CO.
Pot 2: t300 (t300), returned to CO.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. CO wins t950. 

I was going for a flop C/R (thoughts?) as most players will bet out on any flop when checked to. However, it is possible that he judged my subsequent turn bet as a steal, and "restole" from me. If he would have been all in on the turn, I would have called, but as it was he would likely face me with another 400 on the river, which was more than I was willing to pay.

All comments appreciated.

captZEEbo1

12-22-2004, 03:15 AM

I think you had the best hand.

parappa

12-22-2004, 06:33 AM

I think that the c/r on the flop is too fancy.

CWolf

12-22-2004, 08:55 AM

Bet the flop.

But on the turn, I'm very confident you had the best hand.

Being out of position sucks, though.

tubbyspencer

12-22-2004, 02:16 PM

I feel certain I would pot bet this flop. Doesn't make it the right play, but I think the check leads to exactly the problem you have here...

(1) You may be laying down the best hand, which is probable or (2) At the very least, you have no idea where you are.

I think the importance of a "timing" tell (his slow response PF) is irrelevant, too. Everybody's got to go to the fridge or the can at some point. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

adanthar

12-22-2004, 02:18 PM

I bet this flop 100% of the time which makes the fold a lot easier.

Since you didn't, this is read dependent but I'm not a huge fan solely because he checked behind on the flop. I suppose it's better on Stars than Party, though.

Big Limpin'

12-22-2004, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that the c/r on the flop is too fancy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto that. Lead out. Maybe if he comes over the top, then you smell a rat.

The Yugoslavian

12-22-2004, 02:34 PM

Your nose is most likely doing too much work here, /images/graemlins/wink.gif. Also, FWIW, your opponent isn't min-raising here like he did previously with JJ. He *could* be slowplaying a monster (QQ-AA) but it's much more appropriate that you put him on a very wide range of hands.

Definitely bet this flop. *Some* players -- not most -- will bet any flop and unless I've seen my opponent betting almost every flop then I'm betting the flop here.

On the turn I don't really like folding and very well could call this with the plan of betting a non-scare card or check/calling the river. Your opponent could easily be semi-bluffing with a straight or flush draw on the turn or even be completely bluffing Ax/Kx.

RobGW

12-22-2004, 02:36 PM

By checking the flop and betting the turn you made it look like you were stealing, thus inducing the resteal. Great strategy against until you folded. Thinking a long time before calling PF means that he was either getting a beer, answering the phone, taking a hit, or using the bathroom.

partygirluk

12-22-2004, 02:48 PM

OK, there seems to be a consensus.

Hypothetical

Hero calls.

River (1250) 2 Hearts

Hero?

Check planning to call any bet? Bet out 700 and fold to a raise? Bet and call a raise?

The Yugoslavian

12-22-2004, 03:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hero calls.

River (1250) 2 Hearts

Bet out 700 and fold to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo (IMHO). (This is more or less what I was getting at in my earlier post).

(Please note that I do not profess to be an expert at poker but this makes the most sense to me given the range of hands your opponent could be betting in the manner depicted, /images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

captZEEbo1

12-22-2004, 06:00 PM

I personally don't think a c/r is TOO fancy =) You gotta let people know who's boss.