2 hands...

[bernie]

Mucks 4-8. Gravy game. Predictable and Passive for the most part.

Hand 1:

7 see the flop. I completed my sb with 94s.

Flop: 6 5 2 2 tone. Not my tone.

Checked to UTG who bets(only guy who may get tricky at times), 4 callers, Figuring the BB isn't going to raise, i call, BB folds. 6 to the turn.

Turn 8os

check to UTG who bets, 3 callers, i call.

River 3os

I bet out as it's very likely to get checked as many on this table fear monsters. UTG, who knows how i play a bit, is suprised as he pauses and says, "A 4!?!". Everyone folds. Looking back, i may have been able to pull of a c/r. Too close, so I bet.

Hand 2:

I raise UTG with AJs, say 4 callers.

Flop: Td Qd K two tone, 1 tone is mine.

Blind bets out, i call(usually i raise here, i decided to take a different line), 2 callers behind.

Turn: 9 my tone 4 to a flush now.

Blind bets out, I raise, Button calls nervously (she's drawing), blind 3 bets, i cap, button sighs and calls along with the blind. Blind openly wonders 'What the hell is going on!?!'

River 6d Making the flop flush draw available.

Check to button (passive) who bets, blind calls, i fold.

b

[nolanfan34]

Given the likelihood of the table to fear monsters in hand one, I'd probably try for the C/R. Seems the chances are just as good that everyone will fold when you wake up and bet out the river, I'd probably gamble that one or two of them will bet/call, and one will call a C/R. The bet out is cool though too.

Closing the action, my read would have to be dead on in hand two to fold. Sounds like you were confident though. Would raising the flop have driven her out? Probably not, but I'd feel more comfortable just calling with a flopped straight on a rainbow board.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the likelihood of the table to fear monsters in hand one, I'd probably try for the C/R. Seems the chances are just as good that everyone will fold when you wake up and bet out the river, I'd probably gamble that one or two of them will bet/call, and one will call a C/R.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think given the weakies on this table, i could've c/r the turn. Then bet the river with any non flush card. On this type of table, they'll let the river go, but not the turn. Meaning it would've been easier to pull on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
Would raising the flop have driven her out?

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Who do you know that would fold a flopped 4 to a flush on an unpaired board?

[ QUOTE ]
Probably not, but I'd feel more comfortable just calling with a flopped straight on a rainbow board.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're really not hurting the flush draw raising the flop.

b

[Munga30]

[ QUOTE ]
You're really not hurting the flush draw raising the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you really hurt yourself by *not* raising this flop. Your choice likely cost you as BB could have 3 bet that flop with many hands that he would three bet this turn. You smooth call to keep in the nervous button in (unless a flop cold call tells you she's got a big draw) and get the same action on the turn. Who cares where the flush draw's proft comes from -- it's not from you!

Its funny. Last week you were defending a turn raise with a big draw in this kind of spot (bet from immediate right), saying they'll call fot pot size and you make money by jamming. Others advocated for and explained that you can make money from callers, too, and that enough of them could make as much or more than the raise. This week you're pimping a smooth call with the nuts on a super drawy flop (maybe it's "changing gears," I dunno). You defend the call because you won't hurt the draws. It seems backward to me. I'd rather smooth call that hand last week and raise this week. But hey, there's lots of ways to play, right? I hope yours works for you.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
This week you're pimping a smooth call with the nuts on a super drawy flop (maybe it's "changing gears," I dunno).

[/ QUOTE ]

In case you missed my disclaimer I threw in:

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: Td Qd K two tone, 1 tone is mine.

Blind bets out, i call(usually i raise here, i decided to take a different line),

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say it was the line to take on this hand. Therefore, I'm not 'pimping' it.

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[ QUOTE ]
Last week you were defending a turn raise with a big draw in this kind of spot (bet from immediate right), saying they'll call for pot size and you make money by jamming

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely irrelevant.

Am I on the same table as the poster was in that hand last week? Is this the same situation? No. Not even close. There, if i remember right, you had flop 3 bettor and coldcallers behind you. Much different spot.


[ QUOTE ]
Your choice likely cost you as BB could have 3 bet that flop with many hands that he would three bet this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, in hindsight you're definitely right. But also in hindsight, the flushdraw wasn't loosing anything on the flop, but paid through the nose on the turn. So in hindsight, you're arguing pot size. Which isn't a bad argument. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

However, don't mistake me, I do agree with raising the flop as routine.

b