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SomethingClever

12-21-2004, 10:17 PM

So I cleared the Party bonus and deposited back into Empire, reloading my account no further than the 280 BB I had when I took the break.

I had the following hands happen in the first 85 hands I played. Log off, no?

Hand 1. I can never be sure if the players at 2/4 are full of [censored], or waiting until the turn to bet and raise their monster. It seems like it's 50/50. According to game theory, aren't I pretty much [censored] no matter what I do?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (12.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, SB raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Hand 2. Same table. Less than one orbit later. Any other way to play?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

Hand 3. I really, really, really, really [censored] suck at HU situations for some reason. Here I pick a horrible river to checkraise.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Hand 4. Time to log off.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 4 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (14.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

dfscott

12-21-2004, 10:29 PM

If it makes you feel any better, I've been through a similar streak lately. Yesterday I got sucked out for 35BB, followed by another 40 at the beginning of my next session. Luckily, I hung in there and won 70BB to end up positive for the session and nearly break-even.

As someone said in another thread, aggressive play to try and force people to fold rarely works at 2/4 (which is a drag since that's what you're used to when rolling off of 1/2). I've had success lately by playing aggressively on early streets and backing off on the later ones. Of course, I've been sucking a lot lately, so YMMV.

Entity

12-21-2004, 11:12 PM

Hey dude, I'm with ya.

Repeat after me. I want them to coldcall. I want them to coldcall.

Sorry, just venting. You can ignore me.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jd Jc (three of a kind, jacks).
MP1 has 9c 6c (straight, queen high).
MP2 has Ts Tc (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 14.25 BB. 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ad (two pair, aces and tens).
Button has Js Tc (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: Button wins 17.50 BB. 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, CO raises, Button calls, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Ac (flush, ace high).
Button has 3s 8h (full house, eights full of threes).
Outcome: Button wins 21.75 BB.

Entity

12-21-2004, 11:25 PM

Aces tonight: 6 times, win 16.67%, BB/hand -3.67 for -$91.

SomethingClever

12-21-2004, 11:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Aces tonight: 6 times, win 16.67%, BB/hand -3.67 for -$91.

[/ QUOTE ]

Youch.

Man, I feel like such a noob posting big hands that got cracked. But there's just such a different feel to 2/4 than .5/1.

Every time I sit down to a .5/1 session, I'm confident and relaxed. And I pwn.

Then every time I play 2/4, I'm cautiously optimistic, and I usually lose 15 BB or break even.

Makes me wanna slap people who come on here and post crap like, "I'm winning 4.5 BB/100 at 2/4 over 6,000 hands... should I take a shot at 30/60?"

Entity

12-21-2004, 11:44 PM

I think it just takes a while to adjust. I'm probably along the risk-averse side, like you. QQ just taken down by 57o. It just keeps getting better and better.

http://www.geekfitness.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_crappyday.png

The Bear

12-22-2004, 12:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I had the following hands happen in the first 85 hands I played. Log off, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nonsense. Those hands, even in combination, are completely unremarkable. If you are even considering quitting after that, then you need to work on the most important part of your game: tilt control.

Do you read Tommy Angelo's posts? If not, do it. If so, do you ever think to yourself: "Wow, this guy does some pretty strange (presumably -EV) stuff. How can he possibly win?" You think perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he doesn't feel sorry for himself when things aren't going right at the poker table? Maybe, just maybe, it's because he "logs off" when he wants to stop playing, not when he wants to stop losing.

Work on it, it's more important than you can imagine. And the only way to beat the problem is by confronting it. I used to steam a little bit, but I didn't want to do it anymore. So whenever I was getting crushed, I forced myself to continue playing. The worse it got, the longer I forced myself to play. After a while, I became untiltable.

You'll never get to that point by quitting.

The Bear

sthief09

12-22-2004, 12:36 AM

hand 1: fine
hand 2: fine
hand 3: I wouldn't check raise the river. I think he'll check with worse hands way too often. I'd just bet and call a raise
hand 4: easy, easy river 3-bet

sthief09

12-22-2004, 12:39 AM

your problem is that aces are supposed to constitute most of your profit, not losses. try to win with em

you have sexy preflop stats

detruncate

12-22-2004, 12:41 AM

It most definitely takes time to adjust... especially if you don't start out well. I spent thousands of hands trying to recover from an early 100 BB slide. I also put in a good stretch playing 2 tables while I was sorting things out.

If it means anything to you, I'm closing in on the end of my second month and things are finally starting to feel better. Given the sketchy play I seem to excel at, it should just be a matter of time for you cats. Chimps. I should have said chimps.

Best of luck to both of you. And all recent micro grads.

Entity

12-22-2004, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
your problem is that aces are supposed to constitute most of your profit, not losses. try to win with em

[/ QUOTE ]
Damnit. I knew there was something we weren't being taught in the micros. I'm gonna have to work on that.

You know it's been a tough, but odd day when you get Aces -- a 7th time -- and you're surprised to win. That's like 4x as often as I normally get aces, and about 6x as I usually lose with them.

Rob

SomethingClever

12-22-2004, 01:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you are even considering quitting after that, then you need to work on the most important part of your game: tilt control.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I thought I was doing... bailing out of a session that was heading downhill fast.

I think I'm at least good enough to recognize when I've been jolted psychologically, and not on my A game anymore.

Yeah, I've had worse than those hands, much worse. But given the streak I'm on at 2/4, and the way it seems like I always take a hit when I come back to the game from a break, I thought quitting early tonight would be for the best.

SomethingClever

12-22-2004, 01:14 AM

Hey Entity... what is your win % and BB/100 with AA like at 2/4? How about at .5/1?

Here are mine:

.5/1 AA

Win %: 75.81
BB/100: 3.31

2/4 AA

Win %: 65.08
BB/100: 1.64

Poop!

Entity

12-22-2004, 01:21 AM

I don't really have a large enough sample size @ 2/4. Today's results have turned AA into an almost neutral hand (net) for me.

Rob

SomethingClever

12-22-2004, 01:22 AM

How many hands have you played there? I thought you'd been at 2/4 for a while /images/graemlins/confused.gif

imaptone

12-22-2004, 01:35 AM

AA 44 times at 2/4 for a 2.14/100
AA 50 times at .5/1 for 2.6/100

But I kinda suck.

sthief09

12-22-2004, 03:17 AM

looking at your AA BB/hand is a good way to tell if you're running bad... you are

balkii

12-22-2004, 04:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1: fine
hand 2: fine
hand 3: I wouldn't check raise the river. I think he'll check with worse hands way too often. I'd just bet and call a raise
hand 4: easy, easy river 3-bet

[/ QUOTE ]