How many of you fold this pre-flop?

[Cardzy]

UTG+1 I only had 14 hands on. He had not raised prior to this preflop and played 29% of his hands. But it was only 14 hands, so totally insignifcant really.

6 people to act behind me. Averagely loose table compared to the normal $1/$2 tables I find, although the weighted average still shows only 21% seeing the flop. Unweighted it definitely would show a lot looser.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, Hero ???

[Smasharoo]

Three bet it or fold. It seems unlikely you're going to get lots of calls after you if you cold call it, and three betting it probbaly gets you heads up with position. Raise the autobet on the flop if it's favorable and fold to a re-raise.

Folding it really isn't bad, but I'd be more likely to three bet it. Cold calling is probably the worst option unless you're reasonably sure you're going to get lots of callers behind you.

[Stork]

Hero 3-bets.

[VBM]

MP1 is a bad spot for this hand.

on a loose table, i fold.

on a tighter table, i may try to 3-bet to isolate him, hoping for something i'm slightly ahead of, e.g. JQs and he flops nothing.

BUT, in MP1, with 4 more ppl to come + SB &amp; BB? i think more often than not i fold.

[SoCalPat]

OK ... help me out here.

3-bet or fold? I'm fully aware of positional concepts, etc., but isn't this weak-tight to fold? And against a player who hasn't played many hands (admittedly, we only have a small sample here), aren't you probably dominated? Wouldn't you want to encourage more players to come along here in the event you spike your 9?

I would cold call the raise and either:

1. Fold to a bet if overcards hit.

2. Raise the PF raiser if I have an overpair to the board.

If I'm 3-bet on the flop, I'll call the raise and fold the turn unimproved. That's 5 SBs my way vs. 4 SBs by 3-betting the flop, having it capped and folding the flop unimproved, but I'll make that SB back and then some by merely cold-calling the raise, having others do so as well and spiking my 9 on the flop.

Again, I'm lost as to 3-betting or folding. Someone please help me out.

[bennyk]

Even against a moderately loose EP raise, you could be in bad shape here. If you can get it HU by 3-betting, I go for that. Otherwise, you can find a better time to play this hand.

bk

[Cardzy]

Thanks guys. I think I made the right decision by folding it preflop then. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[btspider]

folds...

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero 3-bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know 3-betting it is gonna probably make everyone else fold. An early raise like that, I'm not expecting to see QJs or something halfass, its more like AK AQ, maybe KQs, or some pocket pair higher than 99. You NEED to hit your 9, or be an overpair on the flop to feel good about this. He has at least 2 overcards for sure. No way he has pocket 8's or a lower pair. You're probably looking at a coinflip at best, drawing to a 2-outer at the worst. Due to the range of hands you're likely to be up against, I'm inclined to fold this. I can't see 99 as a favorite to win this hand. Too weak?

[Stork]

Hrm, you've definetely made me reconsider. Now I'm not sure what I'd do. Would you fold JJ here? Being up against AK or AQ, you still are about a coinflip, but folding JJ preflop sounds wrong in itself. Also, 14 hands isn't much of a sample size to go on. Thinking more about it, I might cold call instead.

[Evolution Crisis]

I think I cold call here... 14 hands is a very small amount of hands to have seen him play to fold a 99 on. I think I see the flop and hope it's nice to me.

I'm still a newbie though and all the vets seem to say fold although I'm not really sure why... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DMBFan23]

this is from pokerstove, I used my UTG raising standards.

equity (%)

Hand 1: 56.3504 % { AA-99, AKs-ATs, KQs, AKo-AJo, KQo }
Hand 2: 43.6496 % { 99 }

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I cold call here... 14 hands is a very small amount of hands to have seen him play to fold a 99 on. I think I see the flop and hope it's nice to me.

I'm still a newbie though and all the vets seem to say fold although I'm not really sure why... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

definitely fold before cold-calling. i'd fold TT here and 3-bet JJ probably.

against an unknown.. you are probably up against two overcards or an overpair. against two overcards, you are a slight favorite, tho they may not see the river card if you are aggressive on a favorable flop. against an overpair, you are way behind. also, you are still far from the button, so if one of the remaining players picks up a big hand, they'll 3-bet.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Hrm, you've definetely made me reconsider. Now I'm not sure what I'd do. Would you fold JJ here? Being up against AK or AQ, you still are about a coinflip, but folding JJ preflop sounds wrong in itself. Also, 14 hands isn't much of a sample size to go on. Thinking more about it, I might cold call instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ.. 99 sounds like a fold, JJ, now THATS a tough one. You certainly beat some of the hands UTG+1 might raise. AJ, TT, an aggro 99 might raise there. I'd 3bet for sure because you have a fighting chance, and you have position.. You can see cards cheap, ie, but a free river if you want, you get out if it gets too hot, raise if you hit, position is power baaby!

Ya know, a coldcall occured to me to. I know everyone aruond here HATES coldcalling PF, but there IS a place for it, I'm just not sure where. My thought:

In this particular hand, if you coldcalled, you'd probably get 1 or 2 more players in the hand. The BB would only have to call 1, he'd be getting at least 5:1. With 3 players in, your equity probably goes up. You're probably beating the later coldcaller, and his call increases your pot odds and implied odds. What makes a good coldcall preflop?

[Stork]

Actually, thinking further about this hand, I think I do prefer a 3-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
With 3 players in, your equity probably goes up.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would think the opposite would be true. If you're up against a lone AK, 6 cards can come to beat you on the flop. If you're up against AK and QJ, 12 overcards can come to beat you on the flop.
I prefer to 3-bet and try to isolate the raiser. First of all, 14 hands, none of which (I'm assuming) he showed down, doesn't mean anything. You probably are around 50/50 to have the best hand by the river, but you will have position on him for the entire hand, which is huge. That, coupled with the dead money from the blinds makes me like a 3-bet best.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]

I would think the opposite would be true. If you're up against a lone AK, 6 cards can come to beat you on the flop. If you're up against AK and QJ, 12 overcards can come to beat you on the flop.
I prefer to 3-bet and try to isolate the raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd expect you're gonna beat anyone after you who coldcalls. If another player CC's, they have position on BOTH of you, and they still aren't confident enough to 3bet it, that sounds like 99 isn't down to them.. They may be hoping the blinds call for a 4 or 5 way pot, and they could be holding any god multiway hand like suited aces/connectors, lower PP's, etc. Another coldcaller looks weak to me. I wouldn't consider them to be quite dead money, but just about. That's the only reason I see CCing as a viable option, to add more/less dead money to the pot. Adding dead money == increasing your equity.

[Stork]

3-betting faces the field with 3 cold, and at an average flop seen of 22%, you will likely fold the rest of the table.
When I changed my opinion to cold-calling, I was thinking that it would make the flop easier to fold if it was a bad one, and that you might get enough limpers to have odds to spike a set. However, I much prefer 3-betting because by coldcalling, you may only get 1 or 2 coldcallers, which I wouldn't be terrible, but I'd prefer going against the raiser only. Also, you can put him on a hand better by 3-betting. If he caps, I'd put him on a big pair, and probably call preflop, and fold if he bets the flop and I don't have a set. If he calls, he probably has AK or AQ, so you'll know where you stand after the flop fairly accurately.

[droolie]

I fold. I don't like playing 99 after an unknown EP raiser on a tight table. I'd 3-bet 1010 so this is very close. If I had a good read on the bettor I'd consider a 3-bet.

[wcsherry]

i'm folding unless i have a read that says the villian is a LAG