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Guido
12-21-2004, 06:15 PM
I'm going to post all my stats at both 5/10 and 10/20. You have to remember that I started playing 6-max at 5/10. I had a 200BB downswing from the start at that level. After about 73K hands I took some shots at 10/20 losing 250BB. Nate suggested that I should work on my blind defense and blind stealing. Which I did at 5/10 and I became a lot better at that. Then I went back to 10/20 again and worked my way up but I'm in a 250+BB downswing again. Am I doing something seriously wrong or just a lot of bad luck? Please help...

5/10
Hands 73190
VP$IP 18.66
VP$IP SB 30.81
Saw Flop all hands 25.66
Saw Flop not a blind 13.92
Folded SB to steal 88.50
Folded BB to steal 70.87
Folded BB to steal HU 68.59
Att to steal blinds 25.43
Won $ when saw flop 37.87
BB/100 1.63
Went to showdown 31.73
Won $ at SD 54.17
Raised preflop 12.76
Folded to river bet 45.16

Aggression factors
Preflop 1.64
Flop 4.30
Turn 3.64
River 2.42
Overall 2.62

10/20
Hands 68295
VP$IP 20.58
VP$IP SB 29.33
Saw Flop all hands 25.58
Saw Flop not a blind 15.81
Folded SB to steal 85.83
Folded BB to steal 65.23
Folded BB to steal HU 60.61
Att to steal blinds 29.09
Won $ when saw flop 40.16
BB/100 0.62
Went to showdown 31.82
Won $ at SD 53.22
Raised preflop 14.76
Folded to river bet 44.41

Aggression factors
Preflop 1.84
Flop 4.12
Turn 3.57
River 2.42
Overall 2.71

As you can see I defend a lot more and I steal a lot more but are there any other interesting points I have to improve? I would like to believe that I'm at least a 2BB/100 hand player but that's hard to believe when I see these stats. I can't even get 1BB/100...

Do I have to post any other stats?

Thanks,

Guido

jujujaja34
12-21-2004, 06:29 PM
Guido,

Just curious what your BB/hand in the SB and BB look like...

jujujaja34

Guido
12-21-2004, 06:44 PM
Hi jujujaja34,

At 5/10 these numbers are:
-0.06BB/100 in the SB
-0.16BB/100 in the BB

At 10/20 these numbers are:
-0.10BB/100 in the SB
-0.17BB/100 in the BB

Wow, seems I've become a lot worse in the blinds than I was. Or a lot of bad luck...

Thanks,

Guido

TazQ
12-21-2004, 06:46 PM
I defend my BB ~55% of the time.

Everything looks fine stat wise. Just could be a prolonged mediocre run. When you get to 150k hands you may want to start looking at your postflop decisions if you continue to run sub 1 BB/100.

helpmeout
12-21-2004, 06:59 PM
5/10

Your VPIP is too tight I think 22-24 is a good range.

You are way too weak in the blinds.
Aim for 80 in SB vs a steal
50-60 in BB

You have to defend with stuff like QTo JTo K8o type hands even T9s is good enough.

Your blind steals are a bit weak I think you might want to add a couple of hands and push it up to 27-29ish range.

Preflop raise is definately a bit low, I think you might not be losening up with position. 14-15 is pretty good at 5/10.

I think you are too agro postflop, or at least you dont call too much.

I'm not a big fan of people whose TOT-A is well over 2, they are just too easy to manipulate with calldowns and river raises.

I cant say too much about 10/20 as I didnt play enough of it to know how your stats should change.

As for other stats:

I think probably VPIP and PFR from position might be helpful. Also your winrate from the blinds.

Checkraise % is also good.

pfkaok
12-21-2004, 07:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Nate suggested that I should work on my blind defense and blind stealing. Which I did at 5/10 and I became a lot better at that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you post a lot of those types of hands, or did you just spend tons of time away from the table thinking about those types of spots? This is what I'm concerned most with my game now, as well as how to proceed on the turn in position vs. a LAG when I'm "almost certain" he'll CR with just about any pair or draw.

BTW, if you're including your initial 250BB downswing when you hadn't improved your HU play, and weren't ready for 10/20, then your "true win rate" now could be much higher than your .62 BB/100.

As far as your stats go you might be folding too much, but this is just a guess... my Went to SD is around 35-36% and I have about the same VPIP as you. Also your AF seems pretty high, which would also be a result of folding too much. Of course this is just in relation to my stats, so I have no idea if they're optimum, but I always thought that I might be erring on the side of folding too much (esp vs. the LAGs), so it might be a problem that you seem to be folding even more than I do.

FWIW my aggr fact is about 2.9 on flop, 2.5 on turn, and 1.7 on riv, but then again I could just be calling down too much???

Magikist
12-21-2004, 07:26 PM
I'll second what helpmeout & pfk said about your AF. I think there's a popular misconception about calling on these boards, especially when it comes to short games. It's actually NOT a sin. Really.

Sure, when you're learning, you repeat the mantra over and over to yourself, "raise or fold." Now that you're playing with big boys, simply calling (especially out of position) must be a critical weapon in your arsenal.

Like the aforementioned posters observed, your AF suggests that A.) you're giving way too much action, and B.) you may be folding when you shouldn't be. Both of these problems are remedied by calling more frequently (the horror!). I would recommend specifically concentrating on spots where you might call instead of raising or folding over your next several sessions.

On a related not, it also looks like you may be folding to a river bet too much. You've got a fair WTS percentage, so it leads me to believe that you're giving up on too many winners.

Guido
12-21-2004, 07:31 PM
Hi Helpmeout,

As you can see my stats have changed more to what you suggested when you look at 10/20.

I want to get a VP$IP of about 22-24 and I'm still adding more hands. Defending a little more in the BB will get me there I think.

I think 80 in the SB is a bit to low. From what I've heard 83-85 is about right.

I agree that I should be defending between 50 and 60 in the BB. Since I've improved my blind defense, or at least I think I did, I defend with all the hands you suggested. Even sometimes hands like T8o or 89o. That's why that figure dropped from 70 to about 65 but I guess I should defend even more.

As you can see I steal raise about 29% of the time now and I raise more than 14% of the time preflop.

You could be right that I'm too aggro postflop. Not sure though...

My VP$IP and PFR at different positions are for 5/10 are:
UTG 11.38 and 10.71
MP 11.80 and 10.79
CO 16.25 and 14.66
BTN 19.21 and 16.64
SB 31.81 and 13.92
BB 17.23 and 8.47

My VP$IP and PFR at different positions are for 10/20 are:
UTG 14.60 and 14.32
MP 15 and 14.19
CO 19.62 and 18.31
BTN 20.36 and 18.35
SB 29.33 and 14.61
BB 20.27 and 8.63

My check-raise % at 5/10 is 1.35%
My check-raise % at 10/20 is 1.5%

Thanks,

Guido

helpmeout
12-21-2004, 07:48 PM
5/10
UTG 14.2/11.7
MP 16.2/13.7
CO 19.3/16.8
B 23.2/20
SB 36.7/16 <-- yeah i know i am too loose here
BB 26.7/9.3

Looking at your stats you seem to play only 2/4 positions not including blinds. UTG/MP and CO/Button(at 5/10 these stats differ a bit).

You might want to change your style from MP and button. MP you might raise A9o while UTG you'd fold. On the button you should be making loser steals/calls than in CO.

Your checkraise is also quite low. Aiming for around 2 is good. I find a lot of checkraising is from HU against a steal.

Say you defend with K6o and hit a 6 on the flop, its best to checkraise because the preflop raiser always bets when you check.

Also at 10/20 I found my steals and aggression preflop increased because there are less loose callers compared to 5/10 so I think that might be more the reason your stats increased in those areas rather than you making big improvements.

tongni
12-21-2004, 07:49 PM
I just started playing 10/20 6max about a week ago, it's funny though, your stats look almost identical to mine save for folding BB to steal and I'm down 150BB after 14k hands. Scary. I really think that focusing on reads might improve your W$SD, and if you just called more in the BB your VP$IP would go up to a healthy rate too. Anyways, the swings in 10/20 are frustrating, and I'd wager that its just running poorly that's hurting you. I hope you figure it out, because I'd like to too.

Guido
12-21-2004, 07:55 PM
Did you post a lot of those types of hands, or did you just spend tons of time away from the table thinking about those types of spots?

I just started defending a lot more and started feeling more comfortable with mediocre hands. I'm not very concerned about my postflop game multiway but maybe I should be HU or 3-way, I don't know.

In general, I do find it diffecult sometimes to fold on the turn when I have TPTK or something decent because some other good posters suggested that I should call down more but when do I do that?

BTW, if you're including your initial 250BB downswing when you hadn't improved your HU play, and weren't ready for 10/20, then your "true win rate" now could be much higher than your .62 BB/100.

I just had a look in PT and according to that I lost 288BB before going up. In reality it was 250BB because I didn't get all the hands but I when I exclude the first 14K hands I'm winning 1.31BB/100.

I do fold a lot on the river I think. Especially when I check the turn after I raised preflop and bet the flop. I seem to call down at the wrong times because most of the time they have something, which I know is normal but I can't remember the last time I caught somebody when I had AK or something. I rarely win with just A high.

Thanks,

Guido

Guido
12-21-2004, 08:06 PM
Hi Magikist,

Preflop it's raise or fold for me from the early positions and I will call in LP with low PP, Axs or Kxs. Everything else is raise or fold most of the time.

When I raise preflop I bet a lot of flops. I don't like to slowplay good hands or good draws. When I don't hit the flop it depends on a lot of factors if I bet or check-call or check-fold.

I don't have any problems with calling. I don't raise to get a free card very often because it just doesn't work enough to make it the right action. I'm not somebody who can only think about raise or fold. Preflop yes, especially in early prosition but not in LP and not postflop.

You are probably right when you say that I fold to much on the river. Do you guys call down a lot with just A high? I would like to make more calldowns but I have a hard time figuring out when.

Thanks,

Guido

helpmeout
12-21-2004, 08:11 PM
I dont calldown much with A high.

I try to set it up so that I check the turn out of position when I have nothing, depending on the opponent. I dont like betting the turn and checking the river too much, if I start doing this and people take shots at me then I might throw in a check/raise on the river with a good hand.

If I have position I usually bet the turn and take a free showdown.

Guido
12-21-2004, 08:18 PM
I don't think I can change a lot in MP. I already raise with A9o in that position. When I don't include the first 14K hands I play about the same in that position as you do.

I think you are right that I should raise even more at the button. I should also call a lot more in the BB.

I will think about check-raising more. HU I do check-raise a lot...

Also at 10/20 I found my steals and aggression preflop increased because there are less loose callers compared to 5/10 so I think that might be more the reason your stats increased in those areas rather than you making big improvements.

I started raising more because I didn't raise enough. I don't think it has a lot to do with the level. I would raise the same hands at 10/20 as at 5/10. It doesn't really matter wether they call or not when you raise for value.

Thanks,

Guido

Guido
12-21-2004, 08:31 PM
I dont calldown much with A high.

Ok, well then I really have a hard time figuring out when to call down.

I try to set it up so that I check the turn out of position when I have nothing, depending on the opponent.

I check-fold the turn a lot when I face aggression on the flop out of position.

I dont like betting the turn and checking the river too much, if I start doing this and people take shots at me then I might throw in a check/raise on the river with a good hand.

I don't like that either. Maybe I should check-raise more on the river too.

If I have position I usually bet the turn and take a free showdown.

That's my line very often depending on my opponents, the amount of them and the board.

Thanks,

Guido

pfkaok
12-22-2004, 12:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I can change a lot in MP. I already raise with A9o in that position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you raise this UTG as well?? I usually raise it 1st in from MP, but not from UTG... but your UTG and MP stats seem to be almost the same for VPIP and PFR. Also, UTG i'm usually folding A7s, 66, K9s, KTo, QJo, and J10s, all of which I would openraise from MP.

Gazza
12-22-2004, 04:02 AM
Hi Guido

I'll post my stats here as I've reached 50K hands at 10-20. I wouldn't dare risk starting a new thread with that in case Naphand wakes up feeling grumpy as he did yesterday

10/20
Hands 50,041
VP$IP 26.33
VP$IP SB 40.08
Saw Flop all hands 32.43
Saw Flop not a blind 19.92
Folded SB to steal 83.56
Folded BB to steal 48.07
Folded BB to steal HU 39.85
Att to steal blinds 33.57
Won $ when saw flop 40.05
BB/100 4.10
Went to showdown 36.31
Won $ at SD 53.73
Raised preflop 16.94
Folded to river bet 35.58
Check raise 2.03

Aggression factors
Preflop 1.4
Flop 2.63
Turn 2.41
River 1.53
Overall 1.89

It's a bit early for me to start thinking analytically (or probably to spell either). Maybe others could make suggestions as to why I win a lot more apart from the fact that I may be just a lucky so and so.

However, the one thing that stands out above all else is that I am much looser than you on all streets but judging from our showdown and WSF stats I win every sinlge one of the extra hands I play!

Seems to me that there is a lot more to be squeezed out of this game than playing tight will allow (and that includes folding too much on the flop which you must do with that figure).
One last thing. I only play 2 tables, any more and my game (and probably my health) starts to fall to pieces

Gazza

Guido
12-22-2004, 05:03 AM
Hi pfkaok,

No I don't raise A9o UTG. I do raise K9s and KTo. I raise A7s and 66 occasionally. I muck QJo and JTs most of the time.

Thanks,

Guido

Guido
12-22-2004, 05:20 AM
Hi Gazza,

You seem to play extreemly loose. You see like 7% more flops than I do. I don't know how you do that with that many raises preflop.

You also defend an extreemly lot in the blinds. More than 50% of the time! I wish I could reach 40%...

You also win a lot more often when you see the flop while you see a lot more flops than I do. Just amazing...

You also call 10% more often when there is a river bet. I have to work on that figure although I have not a good idea of how to get that figure up.

Seems to me you are a very good player with a good run. I wish I have a run like that sometime.

Thanks,

Guido

Gazza
12-22-2004, 05:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You seem to play extreemly loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Compared to the average 2+2 er, yes, but I am MUCH tighter preflop than the average player in this game. Also I am much more aggressive post flop which the AF stats might not show because of some extra calls as well. I try not to let myself get pushed around and if this means sacrificing bets paying people off then so be it.

Vaftrudner
12-22-2004, 06:37 AM
I don't know; your BB/100 was 1.63 at 5/10 and then you expect to win 2BB/100 at 10-20? Doesn't rhyme...

I do know; the game is tougher today then it once was.

Maybe time to reevaluate?

/v

Guido
12-22-2004, 07:23 AM
Hi Vaftrudner,

Thanks for the constructive advice.

Your BB/100 was 1.63 at 5/10 and then you expect to win 2BB/100 at 10-20? Doesn't rhyme...

I think this because:

1) I learned 6-max at 5/10
2) I started with 250BB downswing
3) I didn't raise enough
4) I didn't steal enough
5) I didn't defend enough
6) Other well respected posters said they would be surprises if I wasn't a 3BB/100 hand winner

Because I've improved a lot since I started 6-max a couple of months ago, I believe that I should be able to win at least 2BB/100 hands.

I've had three 200+BB downswings in less than 140K hands. The first one was 250BB where I probably lost 20BB because of a little tilt and 30BB because I wasn't good enough. In the second I lost 250BB again. This time I think 20 or 30BB had to do with the fact that I wasn't very good in defending my blinds, no tilt. My current downswing is about 230BB. No tilt, blind defense and stealing a lot better, my alround game better. So even when I would play at my best I would probably have lost 200BB in all 3 of the downswings. Now a very good player might be able to get this down to 180BB which is what I'm trying to do. To get better...

Thanks for your advice,

Guido

helpmeout
12-22-2004, 08:12 AM
I wouldnt listen to well respected posters opinions on what winrate they expect of you.

Anyone can talk a great game whether they play great is totally different.

Guido
12-22-2004, 08:27 AM
I wouldnt listen to well respected posters opinions on what winrate they expect of you.

They have gone through my HH's...

Anyone can talk a great game whether they play great is totally different.

Very true, but these guys are 3BB/100 hand winners. They have seen my game and judged after that.

Thanks,

Guido

helpmeout
12-22-2004, 08:38 AM
All 140k or so?

HHs mean little in 6max unless you have opponents stats with them. I dont know if they did or not.

It is easy to play your B game and play ABC when the situation is read dependant. Its also easy to lose focus after 1 hour or so, or play when you are tired or not feeling 100%.

Guido
12-22-2004, 08:58 AM
No of course not all 140K. But when you look at a 1000 hands you get a good idea about how somebody plays. They didn't have any opponent stats but I don't think that make a difference of of more than 1BB/100 hands.

It is easy to play your B game and play ABC when the situation is read dependant.

Again, even when you play ABC poker you don't lose 1BB/100 hands.

Its also easy to lose focus after 1 hour or so, or play when you are tired or not feeling 100%.

Well I can't say I always play at my best, but a lot of the time I do.

I think that with ABC poker I should be able to win around 2BB/100 hands. With good reads and focus, 3BB/100 or more is possible.

I just finished an other session. If anyone is interested to have a look at my HH's and maybe find some leaks I would be greatfull. Maybe you can spot some thinks I do wrong time and time again. Please PM me or send an e-mail to: guidokakebeeke@hotmail.com

Thanks,

Guido

helpmeout
12-22-2004, 09:14 AM
I think ABC will win maybe 1BB/100 at 5/10 maybe less at 10/20.

Especially at 10/20 there are just too many moves going on.

Some LAG checkraises you on the turn when you have middle pair. ABC = fold

Too much of that kind of stuff happens, good reads are worth way more than 1BB/100.

A very good player will have good reads and act on those reads correctly, as well as play solid poker.

Guido
12-22-2004, 09:40 AM
I've played ABC poker at 5/10 for quite a while and 2BB/100 can be accomplished quite easily. I think at least 1.5BB/100 can be accomplished at 10/20 but maybe I'm wrong.

It's true that there are a lot more moves on 10/20 and it's true that reads become more important.

Some LAG checkraises you on the turn when you have middle pair. ABC = fold

When he's a LAG you have a read but even without a read I don't think this is always a fold.

We just disagree on how important reads are. Yes, they are very important but it's not like you lose 1BB when you fold to a river check-raise with TPTK in a big pot.

A very good player will have good reads and act on those reads correctly, as well as play solid poker.

Good defenition /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Thanks,

Guido

Benjamin
12-22-2004, 12:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys call down a lot with just A high?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a regular part of my play. Of course nowhere near every hand that I play an ace, but if I have a strong ace against a LAG heads-up, especially if he's been pushing me around a bit, I have no problem going to showdown heads-up. And I sometimes end up showing down a weak ace or KQ in the blind wars. It's nice to be able to take the free showdown, but sometimes you have to call from out of position if you have a strong smell of BS in your nose.

B.

pfkaok
12-22-2004, 07:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
s a regular part of my play. Of course nowhere near every hand that I play an ace, but if I have a strong ace against a LAG heads-up, especially if he's been pushing me around a bit, I have no problem going to showdown heads-up. And I sometimes end up showing down a weak ace or KQ in the blind wars. It's nice to be able to take the free showdown, but sometimes you have to call from out of position if you have a strong smell of BS in your nose.


[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, I've had quite a few times in HU blind steal situations where I feel very comfortable calling down with KQ or weak A vs. a total LAG... I probably actually do this too much, but I've won several pots with K or A high. And there's been tons where I just let the LAG bluff the whole way, but he hits a small pair on the river. I guess I'm just not comfortable pushing back at a LAG with a high card hand when I know that he's capable of 3-betting as a bluff or semibluff, and I know that he's never (at least very rarely) going to fold any pair. To me it just seems like if the LAG is going to play back at me with a small pair or as a bluff, I might as well at least have a decent pair before I start throwing too many bets in there.

pfkaok
12-22-2004, 08:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'll post my stats here as I've reached 50K hands at 10-20. I wouldn't dare risk starting a new thread with that in case Naphand wakes up feeling grumpy as he did yesterday

10/20
Hands 50,041
VP$IP 26.33
VP$IP SB 40.08
Saw Flop all hands 32.43
Saw Flop not a blind 19.92
Folded SB to steal 83.56
Folded BB to steal 48.07
Folded BB to steal HU 39.85
Att to steal blinds 33.57
Won $ when saw flop 40.05
BB/100 4.10
Went to showdown 36.31
Won $ at SD 53.73
Raised preflop 16.94
Folded to river bet 35.58
Check raise 2.03

Aggression factors
Preflop 1.4
Flop 2.63
Turn 2.41
River 1.53
Overall 1.89


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey... do you coldcall a lot of PFRs, or just openlimp a decent amount in the 10/20 game?? My VPIP dropped some from 5/10, and I think its mostly b/c there is so much more raising PF at 10/20, so I have to muck many hands on CO and button that I could limp in 5/10.

Also, I have about the same 3betting standards, which I should probably adjust since there is much looser raising by some players at 10/20. What hands are you 3betting an UTG or MP raiser with? Also, what hands are you defending your BB with to have such a low Fold BB2 steal %??

Gazza
12-22-2004, 09:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hey... do you coldcall a lot of PFRs, or just openlimp a decent amount in the 10/20 game?? My VPIP dropped some from 5/10, and I think its mostly b/c there is so much more raising PF at 10/20, so I have to muck many hands on CO and button that I could limp in 5/10.

Also, I have about the same 3betting standards, which I should probably adjust since there is much looser raising by some players at 10/20. What hands are you 3betting an UTG or MP raiser with? Also, what hands are you defending your BB with to have such a low Fold BB2 steal %??

[/ QUOTE ]

I virtually never coldcall or open limp. I usually raise when I come in after limpers but if the table is passive then I may limp after limpers with hands I would throw away at a more aggro table.With calling stations or maniacs sitting over me I may also adjust my strategy.
The only place I limp regularly from is the SB.

My 3 beting standards - well it's totally player and game dependant. AJ and medium PP's is probably where it gets borderline for an unknown UTG raiser.

I'll defend the BB if it's going to be heads up against a possible steal raise with a lot of junk. I like the pot odds here but I quickly fold my hand if I miss the flop. I don't usually bother trying to steal on the flop if I've defended with a heap of xxxx but CR a lot if I get a little bit of it and think I may be ahead. Sometimes I end up looking stupid against a big hand but...what can you do.
If it's going to be 3 handed or the raise comes from early position I tighten up considerably. 4 handed then I start adding in hands that can win a big pot (e.g.J6s and 87o etc)

Gazza

MicroBob
01-16-2005, 01:06 AM
Bumping this thread to thank those who participated in it.
Someone sent me a PM directing me to it and I thought it was a really good discussion.

Going through yet another one of those 100BB down-swings against total donkeys and this thread gave me some really good ideas on what I might want to consider adjusting in my game.

goodguy_1
01-29-2005, 10:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Won $ when saw flop 40.05 %


[/ QUOTE ]
Is this number high?you only have 50K hands..you might be running good eh?

What is the accepted "norm" for Won$when saw flop for an aggresive winning 6MAX player???

Gazza
01-29-2005, 11:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Won $ when saw flop 40.05 %



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Is this number high?you only have 50K hands..you might be running good eh?

What is the accepted "norm" for Won$when saw flop for an aggresive winning 6 max player

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this number is right at the top range of what is possible. I seem to remember Strip or someone saying a while back that he would be amazed if anyone could sustain a win rate over 40.
All I can say is that I push a lot of marginal hands very hard and don't fold easily when I feel I have a chance. I win a lot of small pots on the flop because people don't want to go to war with me. When I'm up against players with a similar style to mine I don't mess with them either. It's easier to give up the little pots.

Running good. Maybe, Long may it continue. It's got even better since these stats were posted.

Gazza

srw5n
01-29-2005, 11:30 AM
Guido-
Without having seen you play there are a couple of things I note that look like potential issues to me:

1. Folded to river bet 45.16 and Folded to river bet 44.41

I don't see how your are getting to the river and folding this often. Particularly with your aggression factors, which tell me your betting and raising the whole way then you fold about half the time? With the size of the pots generated I can't see how folding this often is correct.
2. If you're raising the whole way calling a large pot with A high is often correct.

2. VP$IP 20.58 and VP$IP 18.66 - assuming your games at times fall to 4 handed I think you're late position play is too tight. Even without that assumption these numbers lead me to believe you're CO and Button play is too tight. I'd look at your position stats. Your VPIP on the button and in the cutoff should be higher than other positions. In a six handed game an A-9 or A-8 in CO becomes a strong hand. From you're posts I know you recognize this, but I'd examine your game to see if you're loosening up in late position here.

3. Folded BB to steal HU 68.59 - I think you're 10/20 number is more representative of where you should be. I defend more HU, but perhaps I'm overly aggressive here.

spider
01-29-2005, 12:50 PM
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I think this number is right at the top range of what is possible. I seem to remember Strip or someone saying a while back that he would be amazed if anyone could sustain a win rate over 40.

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I missed this thread the first time around, and am glad it got bumped. Thanks to all who contributed, lots of great insights here. Gazza, especially, has some great posts here.


Re winrate: IIRC, the uber-LAGs here (nate, strip, and/or schneids) have talked about a consistent rate of 42% at 10/20, but only b/c they are so aggressive.

I'm still at the point of doing a lot of tinkering with my game, and I've realized that the W$WSF is extremely sensitive to how aggressive you are, your opponents are, and how many people are seeing the flop. It's also not weighted to big pots, so can be really misleading if you win big/lose small or vice versa.

I guess that's really just a long and non-informative way of saying that this number can be extremely misleading, and probably should be ignored to a large extent. Or at least, for myself, I don't think I can interpret this number well enough to make use of it.


Re the A high stuff: After raising pre-flop, getting HU with the BB, and him calling a flop bet I often take the following line:
1) with K high, bet turn, intending to check/fold river
2) with A high, check turn, intending to check/call river

Opponent specific, of course, but often the best line against opponents highly inclined to bluff the river anytime you check behind on turn. Or opponents who will call flop with any pair and call it down the whole way, but won't bet river even after you check turn. Both of these types are fairly common at 5/10 IMO.


Re fold to river bet: I'm at 30%, anybody lower? I think I need to bring this up, but not by much.