Sucker Straight in a Huge Pot [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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dark_horse

12-21-2004, 02:08 AM

At what point should I have abandoned this flopped sucker straight? Two other straights could have beat me, and the betting post flop was huge. This was on PartyPoker at about 8:30am on a Monday morning at a $1/$2 table, average pot about 7BB ($14). I'll post the results after some discussion.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (16 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, SB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (18 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, SB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (38 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO raises, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 50 BB

What would you have done?

J.R.

12-21-2004, 02:12 AM

I need some kinda serious LAG read to call 2 on this river

StellarWind

12-21-2004, 02:21 AM

I fold preflop twice and neither one is close.

I'm not paying 2-4 BB to show down once the queen hits. It couldn't be more obvious that they have jacks.

dark_horse

12-21-2004, 02:26 AM

Yes, you are right, cold-calling a 3-bet after calling for only one bet preflop was bad enough, but then to call down when any jack beat me was a ridiculous play. Maybe if it were even 2/4 I might have thought about my actions more. It was an immature play and I'm embarrassed to even post the HH here, just wanted to see where others were at at *when* the hand should have been dropped.

Brash620

12-21-2004, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]

What would you have done?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold preflop

lu_hawk

12-21-2004, 02:28 AM

Unless CO is a LAG then it looks like he flopped the nuts and you were dead the entire time.

76s is playable in the right spots but MP1 with 1 limper is not one of those spots. Still, the first call is not terrible, but calling 2 cold back to you is very bad.

You shouldn't have called any bets on the river.

dark_horse

12-21-2004, 11:01 AM

Alright, here's what everyone in the hand had, and my analysis on each street. I'll rue the day when I become a better middle-limit hold'em player and this post resurfaces somewhere to bite me on the ass.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed)

Hole cards in white below: 
Hero has 6d 7d
MP3 has Jd Ad
CO has 7s Js 

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

comments: my call in MP1 with one caller before me was marginal, but cold-calling two bets for a 3-bet from the SB was pretty silly. but CO's cold call here is sheer insanity. i suppose my call was more of a NL play, thinking more about the implied odds should I hit my straight and bust the SB, as it becomes clear throughout the hand that he has a strong overpair, probably aces or kings. in any event, it was a clear gamble. need to cut down on these sorts of plays.

Flop: (16 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, SB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

comments: although i didn't have the nut straight (not even the second nut straight), i suppose my flop raise for one extra bet here was justified to find out where i was at. but all of a sudden CO 3-bets. he obviously has a better straight here, most likely JQ, since he was willing to call for all those bets preflop. could he possibly have J7 given preflop action? well, i guess this is 1/2. not sure he could have an overpair in this spot. SB is obviously still pushing his overpair, probably more like protecting it, afraid of straight draws out there. little does he know that he's already dead. but so was i.

Turn: (18 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, SB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

comments: SB is still going for the gusto now. perhaps he made a set of kings or has the aces. he definitely doesn't have queens since he gave up on the river, and probably would have called by the end with a set of queens since the pot was so massive. this is the second time i've seen a $100 pot in 1/2. as far as my action, more stupidity, i'm afraid. i suppose the king didn't make any more straights possible, although it did make JQ a higher straight. at this point i had emotionally married myself to the hand, and so i raised the SB. but the CO 3-bets again, and it must be clear that i'm dead. still, it's 1/2, the pot was getting huge, and i was hoping perhaps that one had a set and another had an overpair. but what i wasn't paying attention to, was that MP3 has been along for the ride this whole time and never raised.

River: (38 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO raises, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

comments: i've finally wisened up and checked, knowing any jack beat me. but wait, the MP3 finally wakes up and bets! and the CO raises! and our retard hero (me) CALLS two bets cold! sucker straight, indeed. more like ego-driven, stubborn, braindead,. SB finally folds, knowing his aces are most likely dogmeat, MP3 of course 3-bets given the fact that he has the nuts and sucked out on CO, and CO is stupid enough to cap it. and, of course, i call two more bets cold. when does a 1/2 hand cost you $23? if you're a better player than me, never.

Final Pot: 50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 6d 7d (straight, ten high).
MP3 has Jd Ad (straight, ace high).
CO has 7s Js (straight, king high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 50 BB.

River2Pair

12-21-2004, 11:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
just wanted to see where others were at at *when* the hand should have been dropped.

[/ QUOTE ]

other than preflop, when it is two bets back to you on the flop.

StellarWind

12-21-2004, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
other than preflop, when it is two bets back to you on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You just assume the 3-bet shows QJ/J7 and not a set, two pair, flush draw, OESD+pair (e.g. JT/JJ), or another 76? Isn't that a rather extreme position to take with a flopped straight?

River2Pair

12-21-2004, 12:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
other than preflop, when it is two bets back to you on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You just assume the 3-bet shows QJ/J7 and not a set, two pair, flush draw, OESD+pair (e.g. JT/JJ), or another 76? Isn't that a rather extreme position to take with a flopped straight?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (16 SB) T, 8, 9 (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, SB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

We had two preflop raisers, SB and MP3. A non-PFraiser (hero) raises the flop, and then it gets raised by CO, another non-PFraiser.

So, the limpers hit their hands. Look at that board. Look at all those flop cold-callers. I don't expect to make much money with this hand and this action in the long run.