Flopped middle pair and goes for the chk raise

[stonecold]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, Button calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Is this standard play ? The table is very loose... sawflop 51.6 % both are passive callers and that goes for bottom pair and top pair.

Should i bet out on the river ?

[Nick C]

I'd probably just lead the flop, as I'm worried it'll get checked through by my passive opponents if I have the best hand. But once you check, I think the checkraise is good, provided Button isn't so passive that he needs at least top pair to bet when checked to by two opponents in the blinds. (And I don't think all that many Party 2/4 players are that passive.)

I like the turn bet. (If raised, I would fold.)

I think the river is difficult. I want to say bet and fold to a raise (since Button doesn't sound like the bluffing or bluff-raising type), but it sounds like this Button would check behind a number of hands that beat yours. And now that the board has paired, the number of worse hands that will call just went down. So maybe there are a greater number of better hands that he'll check behind than worse hands he would've called with.

The reason I might bet the river is that I don't like check-calling the river when out of position against opponents who don't bluff much after I've been betting the whole way. And, if I checked, I think I would call a bet here, figuring that Button has seen me fold the river before and, passive though he is, maybe he's decided it's his turn to take a shot with his pocket threes or whatever (or maybe he's decided I've been bluffing and he likes his 97 after all). But the danger of Button betting on a board that now contains an ace and a pair may not be that high.

[Harv72b]

I don't like the completion preflop. I wouldn't normally play Q9o there, but if you feel that you have better hole cards than Button when he limps first in, I'd raise before I limped behind.

I'd also bet out on the flop, but against two passive players who tend to call a lot, that's not going to tell you much about their hands. The c/r is a good play in itself here, as it does tell you a bit more about what Button has.

When Button calls your c/r and your turn bet, being the passive type, that makes me believe that he's paired something. When that second four comes on the river, that means that anything he's paired will beat you, unless he limped with a 9 &amp; a weaker kicker. I see nothing at all wrong with checking that river, especially since Button will probably call a bet with any made hand (most of which beat you).

[stonecold]

The thing is that they always bet out on the flop( forgetting that i have chk-raised them atleast 10-15 hands ). i know i forgot to tell u that, sorry.

Good read that he might have PP(88).

The river play you (both) explain seems logical thanks for the response /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yeah i know i should have raised, i played the hand cause i am better then them /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Guess i was lucky that he didnt have a jack or a 4.

[stonecold]

One other think what do u call players that call almost everything and bet out with nothing but never raises.
Loose passive ?

But if no one bets out they do it with nothing ! is that something a LP would do ?

[Nick C]

I'm thinking that since the players you describe probably get more opportunities on Party 2/4 to call than to lead the betting, they would still be loose/passive.

[stonecold]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking that since the players you describe probably get more opportunities on Party 2/4 to call than to lead the betting, they would still be loose/passive.

[/ QUOTE ]
True.