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View Full Version : Heads up on the river unimproved when they could have anything.


Bukem_
12-20-2004, 07:41 PM
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)
utg is loose(60% vpip) and passive

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, SB folds.

River: (6.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ???

If I check do I call a bet?

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Grisgra
12-21-2004, 02:29 AM
Against a passive opponent, I check/fold. Often they'll check their missed draw or even low pair (that they'd have called with anyway).

Against an aggressive opponent, I check/call or perhaps bet the river.

imitation
12-21-2004, 02:49 AM
check/fold, but ehh table image player reads will influence this. I may also consider betting this river if I think villian will fold on the river, but it doesn't seem likely they were chasing anything.

Bukem_
12-21-2004, 03:20 AM
The thing I'm worried about here is that he is very loose, and his passivity makes it so I have no idea if he has anything at all.

If he is paying attention, he might be able to interpret my check as busted overcards. Then he can bet the river and pick up the pot with his busted draw/crap cards.

I feel like a lot of the time If I check here, a few things might happen.

If opponent has a weak hand that paired somewhere he will check it and take the free showdown, since he doesn't want to get checkraised or called.

If opponent has a semi-reasonable hand that missed, he will check here also.

If opponent has a mediocre hand, he will bet, even though I will almost always never call with a hand that doesn't beat his.

If opponent has nothing, I think he takes a shot here to pick up the pot. This is what bothers me the most, I wonder if it really is right to check/fold the river here when his starting hands are so bad.

The pot isn't tiny, am I giving up money vs this specific loose, passive opponent in this situation. (This isn't the opponent who only bets the nuts, he is a little erratic.)

marand
12-21-2004, 09:23 AM
I often check/fold the turn when I am out of position.
(When I have position I usually bet the turn and check the river.)

If I had bet the turn in your example I would not bet the river.
I would check/call if I think he might try a bluff and I would check/fold if I think he almost never bluffs.
(Tricky decision... thats why I usually check/fold the turn instead here. This might be a leak of mine, not sure.)