A more tactical question...

[DrGutshot]

PP 10/206max

Table is fairly loose, ESPECIALLY the 2 players to my left,
coldcalling any small suited connector, QTo+.


I had won the past 4 pots, 3 of them 7-8bbs, the 4th a button openraise steal (first time they have folded to it). The past 4 pots I have all raised PF.

it is 4 handed, I am dealt 44 in UTG(CO) and I fold...

thoughts?

-DrG

[naphand]

With a hand that gains a lot of its value stealing PF or on the flop, and where you figure you are likely to get played back at and would be forced to fold, then sometimes I fold. 44 is pushing it even 4 handed from CO. But still, if you get button out you have position and that gives you an edge. Tough to play post-flop without folding people out or getting it HU. If your opponents are starting to adjust then I drop it fairly quickly, but here you say they all just folded out so that may be a reason to keep pushing. HU against a blind you are in reasonable shape.

Where to draw the line? There are a bunch of marginal hands I am raising from CO or against 1 limper OTB, but will drop them if I have raised the last 4 hands straight. This feels right to me, as I want to keep some folding equity, though others may suggest playing on like this until you get played back at. Raising 44 and getting to SD will get you calls on your better hands, of course. On balance, I prefer the folding equity.

[DrGutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
If your opponents are starting to adjust then I drop it fairly quickly, but here you say they all just folded out so that may be a reason to keep pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mentioned that I had just stolen the blinds from the button to suggest that the possibility of it working twice in a row decreases significantly, especially with these opponents. Do you think that them folding the hand before is reason enough to steal again?

Thanks for the in depth response, good stuff.

-DrG

[naphand]

It depends on you. If you have been in the game long enough to knoew they will start to play back, and you want to keep some equity, then it is fine. If you don't know this, then playing on is good. My personal preference is to may them pay their way out, but adjusting in advance is OK too, 44 will be hard to play post-flop and you did mention that 3 of the 4 pots were 7-8 BB, that's tough with 2-3 overcards.

It is opponent dependent. Yesterday I had a dream table with 2 fish to my right and two weak tighties to my left folding a lot. All I did 1st in against the tighties in the blinds/OTB was raise PF to win a lot of blinds, and alternate betting the flop or Turn against them with anything. They just kept folding... However, this is $10/$20 so it really is a matter for your own judgement. If you think they know enough not to let you keep stealing then dropping this marginal hand, as you did, seems perfectly valid to me.

[helpmeout]

44 is trash

I wouldnt be making any loose steals for a bit, obviously they wont respect them.

[DrGutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
44 is trash

I wouldnt be making any loose steals for a bit, obviously they wont respect them.

[/ QUOTE ]

44 is the smallest PP I raise in the CO. However, that said, I raise it 90% of the time there if it's folded to me. I have been trying to get my att. to steal up to 30-34 range, which i believe is optimal.
In the CO I raise...
JTs+
QJo+
KTo+
K9s+
A6o+
A2s+
44+

on the button...
JTo+
J9s+
QTo+
Q9s+
K8o+
K6s+
Axo+
22+

obviously, this is only if it has been folded to me, and changes would be made to this list due to special types of players in the blinds.

thoughts?

-DrG

[vulture]

Raising is no option here, because you will probably play the hand three or four-handed, the worst situation in which you can be with a low pair and two bets in. If the players are loose and passive consider calling. Most of the time folding is the best option.

Vulture

[vulture]

Sorry,

I read your post too quick; I thought you were UTG. From the CO rasing is an option if you get hu frequently enough.

[imitation]

Given the scenario posted I would muck. In other situations 4handed I would raise UTG Q9o, Q8s, J9s, JTo, K8o, K8s, A6o, Axs, however I do not place much faith with PP so I would still only raise 66 up, this seems strange I guess.

[helpmeout]

I find low pocket pairs really arent worth much shorthanded because you never know where you are at.

If you are ahead then he still has 6 outs on the turn and river to beat you.

If you are behind you have 2.

I normally fold 22-55 in CO and button unless the blinds are overly tight and passive postflop.

I think 30-34 is in most cases too aggressive shorthand.

[imitation]

Can you explain why it is too aggressive? I raise alot of hands purely for value and not for stealing because I know the blinds will call with a range of very very bad hands. I will also raise because players are usually bad and will fold alot HU without getting very tricky unless they catch which is not often enough for this to be correct.

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
I find low pocket pairs really arent worth much shorthanded because you never know where you are at.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excatly. U win small and lose big because how can u play aggressive with 3 overcards on flop? I would raise a trashy hand like Q9o from CO but not 44 aginst loose players. If u hit with Q9 u can often play it stronger.