Would you fold against this overbet?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Hero has only been at the table for two orbits, but in that time Villain is 36/8 VP$IP/PFR and has been very aggressive with big bets. I had no idea what to make of this so I folded, but I think I could have easily had the best hand (and the best draw). What do you think?


Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($33.65)
MP3 ($34.85)
CO ($33.55)
Button ($74.55)
SB ($24.80)
BB ($38.55)
Hero ($49.75)
UTG+1 ($46.30)
MP1 ($49.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, SB folds, BB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3.25) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Whiffing on a check-raise of the raiser since I was pretty sure he didn't have a good ace from his min raise preflop. Thought he would take a shot at the pot, though, with basically any two. Oh well.

Turn: ($3.25) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.75</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $17</font>, Hero folds, Button folds.

[TheWorstPlayer]

So no one would have called this?

[Jonny]

I'd probably call vs. a LAG, but a fold isn't bad either.

[fimbulwinter]

I cannot think of a hand with which he would make this bet where you are ahead.

fim

[TheWorstPlayer]

Except no hand. Or a turned flush draw. Or a flush and straight draw. But in general, I agree. I think that he most likely had two pair. Just wondering if people try to pick off these ridiculous bets at these limits and, if so, did this look like a likely candidate for picking off.

[grouchie]

I've seen too many mini raises with AA lately to even think about calling here.

[TheWorstPlayer]

The button mini-raises (which is almost 100% a very feeble blind stealing attempt) and then the BB is the one throwing up the massive overbet. If it were the button betting, then I would agree with you that he was probably someone who liked his aces and didn't want to just steal the blinds with them, hence the pot builder preflop. In this case, though, I think there is a decent chance this is just a mad steal from a LAG (the BB). Would you agree, now that you see that it is not the preflop raiser who is overbetting?

[Tilt]

Easy fold. If he makes this move often you will trap him in no time. But if his min raises are making you think you can call this kind of bet then his strategy may be working.

For the record, I think he stumbled into trips with that 6 and got overexcited.

[PoBoy321]

Personally, I wouldn't have checked the flop. It's not like you have such a strong hand that you can try to catch someone with it. Plus the straight draw is out there, which it seems like he may have just hit. I'd fold this 100% of the time regardless of who I'm against, and I think that you made the right fold in this situation. Especially since the only semi-reasonable hands that you could be up against are A2-A5.

As for picking off bets from lags, I like to pick spots to do it. If he wants to throw $17 at a $5 pot, let him. However, when you're sitting on the nuts, let him do it again and punish him for it.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I wouldn't have checked the flop. It's not like you have such a strong hand that you can try to catch someone with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. I bet this flop. Top pair, modest kicker is not a hand I check-raise with -- even against a LAG.

Once you got to the turn there could be a whole lot of trouble out there -- made straight, two pair, a set... if there is no made hand, there is certainly a straight or flush draw -- which would be fine if you knew that was all it was. A check, a weak bet and villian represented a big hand. No way to call.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Thanks guys. There still seems to be a bit of confusion because BOTH the guys in the pot were big LAGs. The guy who min-raised and I thought would take a shot at the pot was NOT the guy who ended up going for the overkill bet at the end. That guy hadn't been min-raising at all, he had been throwing big bets around all night. But, I agree with your points, which is why I folded. I think I should have just bet the flop, too, in retrospect. I just thought it would be more clever to trap them both with a checkraise since the button had a laggy image I knew the blind would call his bet and then I could raise with the pot at least double the size. Guess my read wasn't good enough that he would bet after raising preflop and my hand wasn't strong enough to be giving up free cards. Thanks for the responses!

[kongo_totte]

Also, I'm not a fan of the limping w/ A 9s UTG, especially with a couple of lags at the table.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Meaning you'd fold it, I assume? Certainly not raise it . . .

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I cannot think of a hand with which he would make this bet where you are ahead.

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, fold.


In fact, no matter what Villain had, he played it poorly.

UNLESS, he had built up such an image to the point where an opponent would call his massive turn raise OOP with a weak draw and weak made hand.

Good fold. You are behind, but I can't really determine to what.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yup, villain is a moron unless this is the move of honor. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But glad you agree with the fold. This actually happens fairly often at these low limits and I basically fold unless I have the nuts, assuming I will get the cash back later at a better spot. The purpose of this thread was to see if that is really the best plan, and it seems like it is, so great. Thanks for the help, guys.