Blind steal vs. a TAG

[joker122]

party 5/10, SB is a TAG.

folded to me OTB, i raise A6o, sb 3bets, bb folds.

flop is K63r

he bets. what's the best line here?

[sublime]

well i am sure he has a pretty wide range of 3-betting hands here and that K may be just as worrisome to him as it is to you. i think i would raise here and hope he folds some mid PP that has you beat.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
i think i would raise here and hope he folds some mid PP that has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]


don't you think a turn raise would produce this result more often?

[Michael Davis]

Honestly, I don't think guys ever fold mid pairs here. I like making sure one bet goes in on every street, but I;m not convinced mine is the best line.

-Michael

[imitation]

Raise with the intention of calling a 3-bet and folding on the turn would be most appropriate against 5/10 standard TAGs. Who imo incorrectly lead out in these situations much too often and then call down with A-high much too often.

[helpmeout]

Call the flop.

What good is raising?

If he had a K then wouldnt he checkraise the flop or turn.

He more likely has something like ATo.

You can raise the turn and take a free river if you think he has the better hand.

It really depends how agro he is, I either call down or raise the turn.

[Danenania]

Either call the flop then raise for a free showdown on the turn or call the flop, call the turn, fold the river. All depends on if he can fold a mid PP to a turn raise. Went to SD % would be a useful stat to know.

[Victor]

My general line is to call down here. After reading some posts I like raising turn and checking behind on the river.

[sthief09]

my plan would definitely be to raise the turn, folding to a 3-bet. I'd be tempted to bet the river too if no more scary cards came out, as you probably have the best hand and he could call with A high. you really need to present him with the chance to fold unpaired cards before the river, even if he only has 3 outs

[Trix]

I raise the flop.

I want to fold overcards to my pair right there and if he 3bets I will be sure enough that I´m beat to fold on the turn.

I also dont think he will fold much more with mid pairs to turn raises than to this line and raising the flop would probably be my line with a King too.

[Danenania]

"I want to fold overcards to my pair right there"

Think about the overcards he could have that you beat. If you're ahead you most likely have him drawing to 3 outs.

[joker122]

I raised the flop, he 3bet, and I folded the turn when I didn't improve.

I think calling the flop and raising the turn is better because he could fold 77-QQ, but he'll likely 3bet a flop raise with these hands.

[balkii]

joker...would you fold QQ to a turn raise here?

[Schneids]

If you're doing these types of plays often in 10/20 (yes I know this hand is 5/10) I speculate you might be allowing yourself to get ran over by some of the more aggressive regulars in this game.

I can think of multiple opponents who based on their PT stats def. appear to be TAG; however, they are exceptionally LAG postflop.

Just something to consider. I saw this hand and my inclination was to "call on the flop and see what happened on the turn." The way you played the hand you put in 1.5BB and only saw a turn card. If I call the flop and call the turn I've put in 1.5BB and seen a river. Obviously my decision is no easier on the river than yours on the turn, but there's a greater chance they check the river with hands I'm beating than the turn, so, I do gain that piece of information sometimes.

In closing I'll disgress it's better to raise on this flop in 5/10 than 10/20.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're doing these types of plays often in 10/20 (yes I know this hand is 5/10) I speculate you might be allowing yourself to get ran over by some of the more aggressive regulars in this game.


[/ QUOTE ]

So if this were 10/20 would you call down (maybe fold if turn and riv come real bad) , or call flop then raise turn? Also how would your line change if you had AQ here, for just the nut-nonpair hand on flop? in that case would you want to raise on the turn to give him a chance to fold a slightly better hand, or do I just want a cheap SD?

Also, I've been having some trouble trying to adjust to play in these spots vs. LAGs who will defend, and 3-bet with almost ATC. With a good A, or a pair I rarely fold, but I don't always know when its best to just let them bet every round for a relatively cheap SD, and when my hand is good enough to raise, and either cap or call down when he comes back with a 3bet.

I know that it should just be a simple math problem in these spots when you're essentially against a random hand, but I haven't yet found a good thread on the subject that goes into detail about how to maximize EV in these types of spots that seem increadibly common at 10/20. Anyone have a link? I remember Peter_rus had a good one on LAG vs. TAG thinking by bets on each round, but I'd be interested in one that goes into detail on specificaly HU blind steals/defense when you're against ATC.

[joker122]

which "type of play" are you refferring to? the flop raise or a turn raise?

[ALL1N]

If you're winning, then he's probably got a hand that you don't want him to fold: most notably Ax, 55-22. Thus, it is usually best to call the flop and turn in these situations.