Home Poker: help me lose! (long)

So another night of home poker came and went at my apartment. We were playing for the piddly sums of .25-.50 and I ended up ahead close to $20 after about 2-3 hours. Not a bad win.


In fact, I've booked a win every week we've played. I'm pretty sure that I'll keep booking a win every time we play too. Why? Because I'm the best player at the table.


I'm flat out, hands down, the best player in the game and they all know it. I say that without any modesty, but it's low praise indeed. Some of my friends are so bad, winning a pot from them borders on criminal. One player tonight called (CALLED!!) with a 6 high on a board that was double paired.


So...I don't really want to lose. This game isn't about the money, though. If I really want to make some cash, I'd go to the casinos and play. This is for fun. But I'm not about to throw the game. I'm not even going to throw the hands. If they want to win, they're going to have to play good poker. But they don't, and so they don't.


Bottom line is, if something doesn't happen soon, this game is going to break up. I feel bad winning all the time. They probably resent me winning all the time.


I just don't know what to do. I enjoy playing poker and I want to get my friends involved. It took forever to set up a weekly game and I can see it coming to and end fairly soon. HELP!

Calling w/ 6 high just means he was curious to see what you had, not that he actually hoped to win.


How about ploughing your wins back into the game via goodies and treats. You could get some steaks and beer and entice some Hooters waitresses round, like our pal tomnshell suggests in a thread below:).


G

Play more games that build fairly big pots and minimize your skill advantage. Learn some of these games (or more of them) and call them when it is your turn to deal. Then you don't have to throw anything.


Fun games I have played that have been discussed on this forum include 7-27, 3-5-7 and variants (high hand - low hand - high hand), Follow the Queen, High or Low Spade splits pot (called Black Mariah and Chicago, respectively, in our game), guts, and Acey-Deucy.


www.homepoker.com (http://www.homepoker.com) has a large collection of game rules and variants.


I also agree with Graham. Have the best snacks & drinks, keep the atmosphere fun and you should see some more games in the future.


Hope this helps!

How do you expect to lure the true addicts if you don't give them that initial "high"??

One big win keeps a guy coming back for months.

I know you said your game wasn't about money, but if that was truly the case, they wouldn't care about losing every time.

Graham hit the nail on the head--big pots="excitement" to newbies. also minimizes your skill.

good luck, hope you can keep it going...

Add a high hand Jackpot...small bit from the ante(blinds)goes into a cup. The Guy with the highest hand at then end of play wins it. They may just play to see if they can hit the jackpot :-)


Adds a bit of fun to the night


Best of it !!


MHamer

I like the idea of "bribing" them with goodies. It's at my apartment anyway. They get free beer so that much is ok. Snacks wouldn't be too bad either. They've got whatever I have, but specifically providing some things would be nice, I suppose.

"I know you said your game wasn't about money, but if that was truly the case, they wouldn't care about losing every time."


For ME, it's not about the money. I'm happy to play whatever game they want to at whatever limits they want to. I'm happy to teach them basic poker strategies, basic opening hand strategies, anything to get them interested and playing at at least a solid beginer level.

But when I play, I'm playing to win. If they want to win, they're going to have to beat me. It's painfully obvious that they can't, and I feel so bad having this monster stack while they have to buy in for more.

I wouldn't feel bad if they just understood how to play, but they don't. Taking candy from a baby would be an apt description here.

Always exciting ... play match the pot games!


We played 7-card stud with low hole wild, high hand takes 1/2 and lowest spade in the hole takes 1/2. If you don't drop at the river (i.e. when the last card is dealt and you so much as check, bet or raise) you must match the pot if you don't win a piece of it.


Let's say player A has the 2 of spades down, and player B had the royal flush. They split the pot which happened to be $50, so they win $25 each. Players C and D also contested the pot by checking at the river (C had the 3 of spades down, and D had 4 aces). Players C and D now match the $50 pot by putting in $50 antes each, and everyone gets to play for a pot starting at $100 on the next hand. Player E folded at the river and was quite happy he did, especially seeing 2 players match it giving him a shot at $100+.


If there is a matched pot, then the same game is dealt repeatedly until there is no matcher(s). Let's say you play 5-card stud match the pot, and 2 players match a $25 pot. The next hand starts out with their $50 sitting in the pot and it must be the same game of 5-card stud.


In match the pot games betting is otherwise normal after matching, that is to say even though someone may have matched $100 and it's sitting in there, other players continue to ante and bet as before - further building the pot.


bear in mind that these games can be quite brutal, so you might want to adjust the maximum bet downwards. If you usually play for a $5 max bet, you might consider doing a $1 max bet if you're playing with a burn.


Advice #1: if you're the dealer and it's your turn to call the game, 5-card draw is the best because you get to go last which is a huge advantage in match the pot. Let's say the pot is $50 and you're the dealer at the river: now that everyone must decide whether or not to stay in and risk matching that $50, you hope that they all fold one after another and you win the $50 without showing. We outlawed calling match the pot draw games for just this reason.


Advise #2: if you're playing 7-card stud, low hole wild and low spade takes half you better have quads or better to go for high, or the second nut spade or better going for low. A straight flush is often the high, as is the nut spade for low. Unless, of course, you just love matching the pot.


Advice #3: matching the pot can be hazzardous to your health as you will soon discover when you try playing these games. There's nothing like playing an uncertain hand in hopes of a huge payoff if you win, and facing a huge loss if you miss.


Advice #4: if playing with any wild cards, decide beforehand what you will do for tie hands. We play where the hand made with the least number of wild cards was the winner, and if both still tied then they chop. This rule made a buddy match a $400 pot with the royal flush using 3 wild cards and the second nut spade. The winner? That was me: royal using 2 wilds, nut spade for the scoop.

the max amount a player had to contribute to the pot on a burn situation. say, with normal max bets of $5 burn limit is $20 or $25. that keeps it friendly so you don't have guys that HAVE to match $600 because their 1-wildcard royal flush got beat by a no-wildcard royal flush or something.

I have a similar "problem" here in Bermuda. Not too many players around in my circle - and terrible at that. Then they lose interest if they've lost more than two or three sessions on the trot.


What I've also done is just not bothered for a coupla weeks; they eventually get the itch and start dropping hints about wanting to play again (they want to play; that's why they're there in the first place). Then I just make sure the fridge is stocked to please, plus a bottle of red or two, and off we go again.

Like you, I'm not dropping my game.


Wish I knew some underemployed Hooters waitresses...


G

Why not teach them how to play? They aren't the real targets of your poker profit, you aren't playing for serious stakes, and the game is boring, and you think everyone resents you for winning.


These are you friends, and you play the game mostly for the fun of it.


I say you should teach them how to play better so the game is more fun for everyone.


If this were even CLOSE to being a game that you looked to for profit, I would not suggest it.


natedogg

Oh this is far from a profit making area. I stand to lose in an entire night an amount equal to one bet at the riverboats.

To me, nothing. To them? Well, it was hard enough pushing the limits up to .25-.50 as it is.


But you're all right. I'm buying some better snacks. Also, next time I see them, I'm passing out Sklansky's original HEP and Lee Jones's book and saying "sit. read. reread. call me with any questions. See you on Sunday."

Dan - In the spirit of teaching them how to play, consider dealing all the cards face up for a while until they get more of a feel for what cards they need to be holding to call or initiate a bet. The obvious disadvantage of playing in this fashion is that the very essence of poker (bluffing) is eliminated.


Giving their money back to them in one form or another, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread won't work, IMHO. To feel good about yourself when you play a game, IMHO, you need to feel like a winner. Thus you need to find a way to make your friends feel like winners to keep the game going. It's a tough nut to crack when your friends lack good card sense, as may be the case here. Good luck.


Once you get the game going, try to play games with split pots and with no declaration for high or low. Make these games where scoops are unlikely. (Texas hold 'em high/low is an example of such a game). This cuts down on the skill factor. In addition, people win (small amounts) more frequently, making the game more fun for the less skillful players.


Just my opinion.


Buzz

This is just my opinion, but I have been through the cycle of building a game from a group of complete newbies to some fiendish poker addicts. Maybe some of this info will be of use.


I've been through this cycle. I am pleased to say it worked out well, and the average level of play in the group went from hopeless fish to decently solid (many of the players from that game are now capable of winning in low - mid limit casino play)


Basically, you just go in phases, and let people's competitiveness with each other push the learning curve.


Phase 1: wacky games with big antes, "flat" betting structures (later rounds not too expensive), and lots of split pots, buying cards, and so forth. Games that make loose play not too costly. During this phase, people develop a feel for estimating where they are in the hand, and tactical play (building a pot, agression, trapping, etc). Note that mega-wildcard games are to be avoided since if every pot is won by a maximum value hand, little card sense is developed.


Try games like:

Anaconda (High-low with a declare, everyone gets 7 cards, pass 3 to your neighbor, "roll" the cards from the chosen 5 card hands one at a time with betting between each, declare before last card is shown)


7 Stud high/low with a twist


triple draw lowball I think would be ideal


And, like the other poster mentioned, stuff like 7/27 and chicago.


Next, people will start to get a bit competitive. Gradually phase out the guts, the chicago, and the wildcard games. keep playing stud, but start playing it straight high (maybe with a buy still)


Watch who's starting to shark the others. Let them know that there's some quality reading material out there. Don't start them with HPFAP. Start them with Yardley, or Thursday night poker, or something that just starts the process of revealing that, yes, there is a world of skilled players out there.


Don't take on the role of "advanced player" and "advice giver", IMO. Just run the game, influence the structure, and give people little nudges in private. A lot of the fun in learning poker is in looking forward to unleashing your new skills on the unwary. If you conduct the home game like a classroom, no one will get to experience that, and their interest will suffer.


Don't teach people how to play tactically, just steep them in myth a little. Don't comment on the play of hands. reward deceptiveness. Encourage the idea of luck. Let these players experience the series of revelations that we each went through as we discovered poker. Don't spoon feed them.


Also, lose your ego. You have nothing to prove. Don't be showing your hands. Don't explain your thinking. Keep the mystery up. Set an example.


If you need something to keep you busy, try messing with the most up and coming players. Trick them into folding so that a calling station takes down what should have been their pot. Try to estimate their level of thinking and put moves on them at that level. Don't talk about what you're doing though.


Once you get to this point, chances are that games that produce "big pots" will be still favored over hold'em or whatever you like. The way to tip this is to organize an expedition to play casino poker and to make everyone watch rounders. If the players are starting to think they are getting pretty good at this point, the casino game will show them how far they still have to go. From there, I think you'll start to get a pretty good game.


Make sure you understand what you wish for - a couple of stiff competitors will probably rise out of your game if all goes well.


Anyway, thanks for reading this long message. again, just my 2 cents. have fun.