TP w/ aggression on flop

[JrJordan]

Not sure I took the best line with this hand, though I'm not sure of a better way. UTG in this hand is slightly loose and passive (33/8) and the other villain in MP is ultra LAP (85/7).

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

<font color="blue"> Easy call, not much debate here. </font>

Flop: (10 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP calls, CO calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, MP calls, CO folds, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

<font color="blue"> I plan on checkraising any bet that comes back to me, most likely from the PF raiser in MP. UTG beats him to it and bets out. MP's call tells me I'm most likely ahead of him, as he hasn't been to tricky yet. Any aggression from him later though and I'd be out quickly. After I c/r, I'm not sure how to react to UTG's 3 bet. Because is PFR numbers are so low, I'm not sure how tight his raising standards are. I can likely count out AQ and AK, but AJ and AT are both possibilities as well as some lower A's. A set of 2's is also possible, as his VPIP suggests that he'd play low PP from EP. I decide to cap and bet out again, intending to fold to a raise if unimproved on the turn. I figure this gets me some extra equity out of the passive MP and hopefully determines if I truly am behind here. </font>

Turn: (13.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

<font color="blue"> His call here suggests I'm still good? Though AJ and AT could certainly just call here as well. </font>

River: (17.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP folds, SB calls.

<font color="blue"> Another rag, but still betting out. Good move or too aggro? </font>

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

Comments and results after a few responses. Thanks.

[naphand]

Your flop action was quite aggressive, but the logic seems sound. Folding TP on drawy boards may be frowned upon by some and is particularly bad when the pot is huge, without a really solid read. UTG could easily be jamming a flush draw or draw plus pair, or others calling it but, with 5 players involved capping TP so-so kicker looks OK, the Q goes a long way to removing your kicker problems if the board pairs later.

When you are just called on the Turn there is every chance you are ahead and opponents drawing, AQ looks less likely but, it far from certain. You are getting 3 callers for your bet and must be better than 25%. Keep going.

River the missed draws fold, the fish call any part of the board in this huge pot. The raggy low cards have increased the possibility of a weaker A getting paired, but they are afraid you have AQ or a set, so won't raise.

You will lose a fair percentage of these hands, but have put yourself in a very +EV situation IMO, making a tasty pot when your hand holds up (which will be at least 40% of the time, at a guess). Capping flops in these games usually shuts down anyone with less than the nuts, so a non-reponse to your continued betting can be misleading.

I had a similar situation this weekend (better position though, as well as other differences, but quite similar):

InterPoker $2/$4 Holdem (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Naphand is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls, Naphand raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, CO folds, Naphand raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Naphand caps, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Naphand bets, SB folds, UTG calls.

River: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Naphand bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB


UTG shows A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Naphand cries /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Apocalypse]

perhaps the competition has changed in these lower limits nowadays, but i didn't need to be psychic to know opponents 3-betting at these limits were holding 2pair 99% of the time. Any hands up on the list would be smoothcalling the flop in order to raise the turn.....it really was that simple, and by the look of that hand still is?

[naphand]

The 3-bettor folded the Turn bet. 3-betting occurs a lot without 2-pair. Turn CR is much more likely for 2-pair. In hand I gave, SB probably folded a better or equal A.

In hero's example, the co-ordianted board is enough for a lot of aggressive players to raise and cap (correctly) with their draws. Hero does not have to be behind here, but is certainly facing some big draw/s, at least.

[JrJordan]

Results: UTG shows ATo and takes the pot. I posted this hand because lately I think my aggression has been getting out of check, and I'm getting a lot of these questionabale hands where I bet hard with 2nd best hands. I think after the flop action, the turn and river bets are reasonable value bets because the rags hit. On the flop though, I'm still wondering if there's another line. What do yo think about betting out here instead of the c/r? The only thing about this line is that if the PF raiser plays back at me, I don't know where I stand... most likely behind though.

[naphand]

That depends on what you read for your opponents. If you bet you can 3-bet, and if UTG raises you get to charge a double bet for the rest, making a lot of draws unprofitable. If your opponent only caps a flush draw or set+ then you have a better idea of where you stand. By capping you stopped a raise on the Turn, a raise there would have been a big hand. Do you see a difference between opponent capping and you betting out on the Turn? Presenting the field with 2 bets is preferable with a vulnerable hand and some possible draws., so lean towards betting out in this spot IMO.