Pocket 9s on Button vs Too Overcards on Board

[lehighguy]

Hero has pocket 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and is on the button.

2 limpers (loose), hero raises, SB and BB call, limpers call.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif,10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif,2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
The four other players check to hero.

Hero thinks, I can't defend my hand. Any jacks or queen or aces are gonna like the straight potential, everyone at this table is loose and will call one flop bet anyway. Betting gets my nothing.

It does however get me more risk. WIth all those callers it wouldn't be crazy to see one of them with a ten or king. I'm worried that one of them is slowplaying the pair, after all thats what I would do with kings in the blinds since I know flop raiser will bet and I can raise. I'm taking on a lot of risk here for no reward by betting. I will see the turn and action and then reavaluate.

Turn: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Everyone checks to CO who bets after a little delay. I think hes bluffing or semi bluffing. Or at the very least, I'm willing to take that chance. TIme to protect my hand. If I'm wrong maybe flush will bail me out, and besides I wanna make any single card flsuh draws pay if I have best hand (which I think I do, CO would have bet pair on flop).

So I raise, get folders, first limper calls and CO calls.

River is dud and I check it through when checked to me since there are really no value bets. I take the pot, they were both on draws.

What do you think of my play? pre-flop though river.

[felson]

Preflop: raise of course.

Flop: I think you have to bet this, as much as you hate it. Don't give a free card to A6 or Jx. If you get raised you can lay down safely.

Turn: Based on your read, good raise.

River: Checking through is fine.

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm worried that one of them is slowplaying the pair, after all thats what I would do with kings in the blinds since I know flop raiser will bet and I can raise. I'm taking on a lot of risk here for no reward by betting. I will see the turn and action and then reavaluate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not betting the flop here is terrible. Free cards all round, with what could still be the best hand on a board that offers re-draw potential (depending on the Turn card). This is hardly a "lot of risk", quite the reverse, the risk is letting them draw to hands that beat you for nothing. You need to re-read SSHE again, regarding situations like this.

[ QUOTE ]
Any jacks or queen or aces are gonna like the straight potential, everyone at this table is loose and will call one flop bet anyway. Betting gets my nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great! Very good reason to bet. You saying here you don't want to charge players who call with any with scratchy draws or any 2 cards? Your play is fear-based.

If they want to "slowplay" a pair on the flop, you should encourage them to do so, you should be betting your pairs for value and giving yourself a +EV situation against them. This is a multi-way pot that was raised PF, slow playing is just dumb.

Based on your thinking on the Turn, you should certainly have bet the flop, this is precisely the sort of card that guarantees more calls. As is turns out you got some action, the Turn raise is good. But why is the Turn raise here less of a risk than a half-sized flop bet? This is far more risky as you face all the pair possibilities you had on the flop, a possible flush and even if making your 4-flush you are probably beat. Good that you came alive on the Turn, but your flop logic sucks.

What site, what limit?

[lehighguy]

Party 5/10 6max

The two blinds where big fans of the check rase on the flop with top pair. That's why I was a bit hesitent. If there was only one overcards and not two (ten and king) then I would bet it again. But given that 4 other people saw this flop I find it hard to believe they all missed both the ten and king. I only get value for my bet if I really do have the best hand, a ten or king and I'm drawing dead. When they all checked the turn it became clear I did have the best hand.

[lehighguy]

I should further qualify my post with an additional comment. If someone has tens it is concievable they won't bet, but will call to river. I could be drawing dead and not know it. After all, if my flop bet gets called do I then bet the turn too. By checking it I intice the tens player to bet his hand. After all I was worried about blinds checking thier pairs on the flop, this solves that worry.

[naphand]

The problem with not betting the flop is that you let hands you currently beat draw to beat you for nothing, and also allow others to pick up re-draws also for nothing. You cannot let players do this, even if you think you are probably behind.

[ QUOTE ]
The two blinds where big fans of the check rase on the flop with top pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you really must bet, if your opponents give their hands away this easily. If you get CR on the flop and bet at again on the Turn then it is easy to let go. Why on earth would you be hesitant? You are afraid to lose 1 small bet, when it saves you a BB on the Turn? A T or weak K may not bet the flop, so your check really does not tell you anything. If you are waiting to the Turn for a safe card, you didn't get one, did you? I think the concern about being behind on the flop is more significant when holding just overcards and a multi-way field, here you still have a real hand. Not only this, but someone may even fold a weak T, especially when the 3rd suit falls. Your PF raise and the K on the board will be pretty scary for the others, who likely figure you for AK or suchlike.