77 - first to enter pot from button; becomes second pair on flop

[Scorpion Man]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (6 handed)

UTG (t1820)
MP (t1220)
CO (t1210)
Hero (t1630)
SB (t1590)
BB (t1530)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t100</font>, Hero calls t40.

Flop: (t210) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t250</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t500</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t960

1) i assume there is no way to call this raise
2) any thoughts on the reraise to gain information...i have found when rags flop that people will often take a shot...so this often works.

[bigredlemon]

sounds like he has a big pair

[partygirluk]

Nice hand. I will be interested to hear expert players' advice on this common situation. You have a clear fold to the reraise.

[texasrattlers]

Wow. Couldn't be played much worse.

Pre-Flop: just limp. You play 77 for set value, and the value you get if you do hit your set comes from post flop bets not pre flop.

Flop:

[ QUOTE ]
any thoughts on the reraise to gain information

[/ QUOTE ]

You are spending 15% of your stack to "gain information"? That's pretty expensive information. Simple rule for low pockets: "No set, no bet". So no 7 on flop and you are done with the hand.

I suppose villain could have AK, but this is the first round of the SNG and it is not worth any chips at this point to find out.

[Phoenix1010]

This is a clear fold at that point. I do like the raise for information there, as his flop bet was suspiciously weak. t60 into a t210 pot looks a lot like a weak stab. However, the big reraise looks a lot more like a big hand putting you to a decision.

Also, my first thought was that he doesn't have to have a big hand to protect his blind from a button raise, but that meek preflop reraise looks like it wants some action. And if he does have a big pair, his flop play makes sense: he made a small probe bet, hoping you hit the ten and would raise. After the raise told him that you indeed had a hand, he reraised to get some more out of you. Easy fold for you, and good play by him regardless of what he had. It's easy to rationalize his first few moves as either very weak or very strong, but the reraise, in my opinion, gave away his strength.

Regards,
Steve

[Phoenix1010]

Texas Rattlers' advice on limping 77 preflop is pretty solid. I however don't think there's anything wrong with raising this hand when it's passed to you on the button. You can often use your position and preflop aggression to represent a stronger hand on the flop and take down some pots. However with the blinds this low, it's all about implied odds, and you should just see the flop as cheaply as possible.

The no set/no bet rule is also very good advice, but heads up on a flop like this, you've got the best hand far too often to fold every time, in my opinion. The suspiciously small preflop reraise changes that though (if you read it as strength).

I would play it safe and just limp with the blinds this low. I would call a reasonable preflop raise from the BB (for implied set value), and then fold to a flop bet when I miss my set.

Regards,
Steve

[texasrattlers]

[ QUOTE ]
I however don't think there's anything wrong with raising this hand when it's passed to you on the button. You can often use your position and preflop aggression to represent a stronger hand on the flop and take down some pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you can do that with any two on the button. Why raise w/77 and scare away some chook (sp?) who is gonna give you all his chips if he hits two pair and you make your set?

[Phoenix1010]

Sometimes the stars will align and you will hit your set when your heads up opponent flops two pair out of the big blind. More often, you can steal a pot after raising on the button and the big blind checks a one overcard flop to you. Other times, you can confidently take the lead on a rag flop precisely because you raised out the random low cards that could have flopped two pair. Against one opponent in the big blind with no preflop raise, implied odds on a set are slim since the big blind will rarely flop a very strong hand at the same time that you hit your set. The implied odds can be easily made up for by frequent potstealing.

That said, I still play this situation safe and limp, hoping to get some help on the flop or win a checked showdown.

Regards,
Steve

[Scorpion Man]

But you can do that with any two on the button. Why raise w/77 and scare away some chook (sp?) who is gonna give you all his chips if he hits two pair and you make your set?

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I however don't think there's anything wrong with raising this hand when it's passed to you on the button. You can often use your position and preflop aggression to represent a stronger hand on the flop and take down some pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I think its more profitable to find a way to consistently play these hands with appropriate aggression than to look for the situation you are describing. If you limp you are going to hit a set around 12% of the time. In situations where you hit a set, assuming for simplicity your opponent does not hold pocket pairs and the board does not pair, he is going to get two pair around 0.9% of the time. So the situation you describe will happen one time in a thousand heads up plays (if I am thinking about this right...please tell me if i am not). I understand that this is not the only situaiton where the set will get paid off, but it is illustrative. I am guessing you will get real action on a set maybe 15% of the time HEADS UP WITH THE BIG BLIND (i am saying this because he will flop top pair about 10% of the time, i think? pair 1/3 of the time...chances are 1 in 3 it will be top? Plus another 2% or so of the time BB has an overpair to the board. Plus some bluffs gone wrong.

So again, we are talking about &lt;2% of the times you have a pair both hitting the set and getting good action in this situation. I understand its great when it happens, but it does not seem to justify structuring the whole play around this strategy.

This also ignores higher sets and the difficulty of playing paired flops above your set.

I agree with Phoenix analysis here...i generally like my course of action, but his preflop raise calls things into question. Of course, this could have easily been AK, KQ, AQs etc as well taking an overcard stab, which is why i made the reraise.

[texasrattlers]

Well, it's your choice of course how to play this monster 77. You happy the way things turned out? Any talk of blind stealing is moot -- this is the first round of the SNG.

[ QUOTE ]
I think its more profitable to find a way to consistently play these hands with appropriate aggression than to look for the situation you are describing.

[/ QUOTE ]

aggressive?? 77??? 1st round of SNG??? Hmmmm ....

[Strollen]

I don't have a problem with the preflop raise. But I'd sure be careful about raising into a pre-flop reraiser without a set.

In some ways you almost have a drawing hand, and he almost is giving you pot odds to simply call. You have 16 outs to a straight draw and of course 2 out your set. Call or fold his bet. A 4,7 or 9 on the turn would worry a pair of Jacks and be very scary to an AK. But 20+% of your chips for a pair of 77s this early...

[zephyr]

Keep it simple and just limp preflop.

I think your raise on the flop is awful. If you're doing it for information, you're simply paying much too high of a price for that information.

If you want information, just call the flop bet and then see how he acts on the turn. Most players won't fire a second time at this pot unless they have you beat. This line costs you 190 less chips, and gives you basically the same info.

Only my opinion,

Zephyr