Using notes - an example

[bicyclekick]

At first I had trouble using the notes I had on people to an advantage. I knew what the stats meant...but how to adapt is something that took quite awhile. Only in the past couple weeks have I added the per-street aggression and I've found it to be pretty useful. This is an example of a type of play I've been able to make because of the notes. The villans notes are:

{{VPIP: 43, PFR: 3, AGG: 0.6
Hands: 80, RiverF: 0, CR: 0.00
WSD: 36, W$SD: 62, W$SF: 42
AF-F: 0.9, AF-T: 1.7, AF-R: 2.8
WF-F: 15, WF-T: 5, W$SD-BR: 40
STEAL: 33, FBB: 0, FBB-HU: 0}}
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed)
converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (5.66 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.83 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 5.83 BB

I know it's only 80 hands, but plenty to get a feel.
Look at his aggression numbers. He's one of those fish who wakes up on the river with his big hands. That and he'll bluff raise the river or try bets that are stupid - the 40% won money when bet/raised river.

The fact that he bet the flop says to me "i have a draw or I'm bluffing". Then again, maybe it's my inner LAG at heart just wanting to raise.

Against an unknown I'd muck here, but I really think raising against this guy is the correct play.

[Sponger15SB]

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{{VPIP: 43, PFR: 3, AGG: 0.6
Hands: 80, RiverF: 0, CR: 0.00
WSD: 36, W$SD: 62, W$SF: 42
AF-F: 0.9, AF-T: 1.7, AF-R: 2.8
WF-F: 15, WF-T: 5, W$SD-BR: 40
STEAL: 33, FBB: 0, FBB-HU: 0}}

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow you keep an assload of notes on each player.

Is it because you have a significant ammount of notes (like 2,000+ hands) on a lot of players, or do you actually feel that after say 200 hands those numbers start to mean anything.

I wish I was on my computer that has PT right now, but I think I've only got something like total hands, vpip, pfr, ag on flop, turn, river, and then the top 10 hands they raised with.

This is all for no limit though.

I think for playerview I have like 6 different stats as well.

[gonores]

Dude bets into a PFR, HU OOP. I don't need notes to tell me I need to continue with this hand. There are a number of lines I might take here, but your line looks like my default.

[SinCityGuy]

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I think for playerview I have like 6 different stats as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're multi-tabling, that's probably about as much as you would want on there (I actually have less), or else you're likely to start suffering from "information overload". You just can't take the time out to "Einstein" every situation looking through 20 different stats when you only have a few seconds to make a decision and three other tables "beeping".

[Sponger15SB]

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[ QUOTE ]
I think for playerview I have like 6 different stats as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're multi-tabling, that's probably about as much as you would want on there (I actually have less), or else you're likely to start suffering from "information overload". You just can't take the time out to "Einstein" every situation looking through 20 different stats when you only have a few seconds to make a decision and three other tables "beeping".

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have started to almost overthink looking at all these stats even though I've only been using it for the last little bit.

Also I 8-table 6-max NL, so yeah, decisions are made quick.

[bicyclekick]

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Dude bets into a PFR, HU OOP. I don't need notes to tell me I need to continue with this hand. There are a number of lines I might take here, but your line looks like my default.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with you on this one. I've been paying attention quite a bit lately with what people are betting into pfr and I think a lot of times against unknowns they'll have you beat. There's a good chace he just has a 9, but even a 9 beats me.

[bicyclekick]

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I think for playerview I have like 6 different stats as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're multi-tabling, that's probably about as much as you would want on there (I actually have less), or else you're likely to start suffering from "information overload". You just can't take the time out to "Einstein" every situation looking through 20 different stats when you only have a few seconds to make a decision and three other tables "beeping".

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, at first I had too much information on playerview. Big time information overload. I scaled it back to vpip, pfr, aggession and total hands. This has worked great. I don't get information overload from the other stats and don't have a problem looking at them quickly if I think it would make a difference. I guess I almost always have plenty of time.

[null]

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I know it's only 80 hands, but plenty to get a feel.
Look at his aggression numbers. He's one of those fish who wakes up on the river with his big hands. That and he'll bluff raise the river or try bets that are stupid - the 40% won money when bet/raised river.

The fact that he bet the flop says to me "i have a draw or I'm bluffing". Then again, maybe it's my inner LAG at heart just wanting to raise.

Against an unknown I'd muck here, but I really think raising against this guy is the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how you used stats to make this read...am I missing something?

[bicyclekick]

players that have low aggression numbers on the flop and high aggression numbers on the river are players that wait around with their big hands. That, or they draw really lightly a lot on the flop. Either way, he's a weak player and it shows.

Maybe this wasn't the best example out there. I had a better one a few days ago but I totally forgot the hand.

[nykenny]

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Dude bets into a PFR, HU OOP. I don't need notes to tell me I need to continue with this hand. There are a number of lines I might take here, but your line looks like my default.

[/ QUOTE ]

i also like this much simpler thought process.

Kenny

[null]

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players that have low aggression numbers on the flop and high aggression numbers on the river are players that wait around with their big hands. That, or they draw really lightly a lot on the flop. Either way, he's a weak player and it shows.

Maybe this wasn't the best example out there. I had a better one a few days ago but I totally forgot the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got that part, what I don't get is what that had to do with your reaction to his flop bet. If anything shouldn't you be giving his flop bet more respect with his low flop aggression? Although with that VPIP he could have a 4 or something.

[bicyclekick]

To me, his flop bet looks like 'out of place' aggression. Like it's not his normal line, so it's more like he's trying to run a bluff or something. When players do something that goes against their natural style...it just looks weird and more like a bluff. To me at least. This guy waits til the river with his good hands and players like that don't try to make a guy fold on the flop. They want to be tricky and wait til the river. Giving away they have a big hand is the last thing they want to do.

Does this clear it up?

[null]

[ QUOTE ]
To me, his flop bet looks like 'out of place' aggression. Like it's not his normal line, so it's more like he's trying to run a bluff or something. When players do something that goes against their natural style...it just looks weird and more like a bluff. To me at least. This guy waits til the river with his good hands and players like that don't try to make a guy fold on the flop. They want to be tricky and wait til the river. Giving away they have a big hand is the last thing they want to do.

Does this clear it up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining your thought process. Hmmm, maybe I should turn per street agression back on in playerview, right now I'm just using total aggression.

[Tosh]

Low flop aggression = more chance he's got nothing when he bets here? That seems reversed.

[bicyclekick]

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Low flop aggression = more chance he's got nothing when he bets here? That seems reversed.

[/ QUOTE ]

To my LIMITED experiance this has been the case. dumbass mostly passive wait til the river to raise types of players have it FAR less. I understand why this may seem counter-intuitive...but it's just my experiance. They hate telling you they have a big hand til the end.

[bicyclekick]

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Hmmm, maybe I should turn per street agression back on in playerview, right now I'm just using total aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't do that if i were you, it really clutters up the screen. You can try it if you like but i find it to be too much that i can't stand looking at it...too many numbers.

Just put it in your notes.