(Borgata 10-20) 78o in the SB. You decide.

[bunky9590]

Scrub (a very respected poster, and a good friend) and I disagreed on this hand the way I played it so i wanted to post it, cause I thought I played it well. But lets see what the gang thinks.

My first 10-20 session in a while and the tale is great. The 20 game I was in earlier sucked but this one was goot. Table is very loos passive PF with avergae player/pot unraised is usually 4-5. With a raise its usually 3-4 handed. BB is the main villain in the hand and is a old man rock (oh yeah, and a table coach, even better)

So here it is, 4 limpers to me in the SB, I have 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and the BB is a very low threat to raise, i.e. when he does it a huge pair. Not AK, a big pair. I toss in the nickel, low and behold old man rockenstein raises, all the limpers call and its back to me. Now, my SB complete for the nickel had me at 9:1 odds on my call, I feel more than enough with that hand to see a flop , especially that my post flop skills were much better than the majority of the table. When BB raised, I marked him for a big pair. with the limpes calling back to me, my relative position to the raiser being the best, theres 90 in the pot and its 10 bucks to me, still getting 9:1. I decide to take a flop, and hope to flop hard.

Flop comes T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Well, okay. I check, BB bets on cue, EVERYONE FOLDS back to me. Well, I obviuosly have odds to call here, I think about check raising, but think better of it and decide to just call.

Turn 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif (Money)
I lead out. BB is now visibly confused, I had my usual LAGtastic image and he knows I'd bet here with a lot of hands, those include a 9, a T, the straight, Flush draw with overs trying to freeze him up. I had a tricky but very aggressive image, and my flop call may have very well scared him, I felt sure he would most likely lay down to a turn C/R fearing the 9, so I decide to bet and keep my hand a well kept secret. He tanks.

He finally calls.

River 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
I lead again, he throws his KK at the dealer face up and mucks. Needless to say, He got run over by me the rest of the session.

Comments , questions. I think maybe playing weak hands out of the blinds may be a weak part of my game but against bad passive players (who are very predictable) I think hands like the 78o can be very profitable in these situations as long as you don't get tied onto one pair hands with them.

Lemme know what you think.

[Rock Eater]

It seems to me you might have played it too fast on the turn. If you had read BB on a big pair, he'll be drawing for 4 outs after you made your straight. If you feel that he'll fold to your C/R on the turn, why not give him another card? It could cost you the pot, but you'll probably make 2 extra BB that you wouldn't have made. (I'm guessing that BB will make a crying call on the river.)

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me you might have played it too fast on the turn. If you had read BB on a big pair, he'll be drawing for 4 outs after you made your straight. If you feel that he'll fold to your C/R on the turn, why not give him another card? It could cost you the pot, but you'll probably make 2 extra BB that you wouldn't have made. (I'm guessing that BB will make a crying call on the river.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't count on him betting the turn. But, I figured with a big pair I could get him to go call/call. And extract the Money from him that way. I never thought in a bazillion years he would fold for one bet on the river. Especially with my image at that table.

Wit a big pair the ay he played he may have been afraid of me having the nine and check the turn behind, who knows, but, I decided to take the easy money and just bet into him on both streets.

[bunky9590]

Bump izzle for the afternoon crowd.

[DrGutshot]

why not check/call the turn and check/raise a safe river?
If you had a LAG image, then maybe he would pay it off?
-DrG

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
why not check/call the turn and check/raise a safe river?
If you had a LAG image, then maybe he would pay it off?
-DrG

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey DG,

That thought occurred to me, As did the check/call the turn lead the river line. I just really was not sure how to extract moey from a rock marked with a high pair who also plays weak tight? I doubt he had second level thinking and had me having him on a big pair. Who knows, It would be a crime to have the turn checked through because he got scared because I smooth called the flop. I had normally been raising a bunch and the smooth call could have put the freighteners on him.

I really thought there was no way he could lay down the overpair to two single bets on the turn and river.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
So here it is, 4 limpers to me in the SB, I have 7 8

[/ QUOTE ]

Now is the time on schprockets when Scrub folds.

[ QUOTE ]
especially that my post flop skills were much better than the majority of the table

[/ QUOTE ]

This is debatable. You were in a pretty crappy 10 game. Pete and his buddy are both solid, and there was another guy in there who doesn't play half bad either.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn 6 (Money)
I lead out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Passive Borg players are all about folding when shown aggression on the turn. He has two outs and will fold if you do something funny on the turn but might call down a river checkraise.

Also, [ QUOTE ]
The 20 game I was in earlier sucked but this one was goot.

[/ QUOTE ] is wrong. The 20 must move we were in was very good. It was a bunch of guys who played poorly after the flop but sort of right preflop except out of the blinds, which they rampantly called out of preflop and then played passively out of preflop. Also, Ed (the black guy on my left with the big silver coin chip protector) was horrifically bad.

scrub

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
This is debatable. You were in a pretty crappy 10 game. Pete and his buddy are both solid, and there was another guy in there who doesn't play half bad either.


[/ QUOTE ]

Pete is solid, I'll give you that. His buddy Shane, not bad.

Old man rock to my left, easy. Mr. Fancy play and make monster laydowns in the 1 seat, even easier to read. Rest of the table was very loose passive.

Actually that game seemed good. Pete stayed out of my way and i stayed out of his so all was good on that front.

[ QUOTE ]
The 20 must move we were in was very good. It was a bunch of guys who played poorly after the flop but sort of right preflop except out of the blinds, which they rampantly called out of preflop and then played passively out of preflop. Also, Ed (the black guy on my left with the big silver coin chip protector) was horrifically bad.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but Ed sat out like the whole time I was there except for like 5 hands. The dude in the one seat was a major weakie he called any blind steal and folded the flops I bet out after steal raising (he also caled you down when you turn 2 pair), the 2 seat was very passive and called down with BS, but 3 seat didn't get out of line, Lenny is solid, I don't enjoy you on my left but we pretty much stayed out of each others way for that sesson anyway. 4-5 seat were tight passive, but they didn't enter many pots. Ive seen better 20 games. Ed on our left is awesome I agree, but, like I said he wasnt there much.

[SCfuji]

i have no problem completing the sb and then calling one more small bet six ways with this hand. i also do not have a problem continuing with the flop when it is folded to me, i have the odds, and i know what my opponent has. i personally would not see the flop if it was folded to me preflop, i completed, and the bb raised.

flop: check/call fine.
turn: i would prefer check raising. mr. weak-tight can still catch his pocket pairs two outs or the board can puke up another 9. i dont see him folding on the turn, but you get that would-be river bet in with the cr. if you are 100% sure that he would've folded to a check/raise, then your turn play is good.

my 2 cents