How to play this AA on the bubble with short stack all-in?

[Gramps]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t3540)
SB (t4760)
Hero (t1175)
UTG (t525)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t525 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, SB calls t375, Hero...?

What's your action PF and why? I was a bit perplexed when it came up.

[pshreck]

Easiest push ever? You have to lose a 3 way all-in with AA to be eliminated. Why do you want to give a 50/50 chance to become 4th in chips (or slide into 3rd) when you have an 80/20 chance to get a bunch of chips and vye for 1st, or bust out.

What reasoning were you considering folding, or even smooth calling for that matter?

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t3540)
SB (t4760)
Hero (t1175)
UTG (t525)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t525 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, SB calls t375, Hero...?

What's your action PF and why? I was a bit perplexed when it came up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I make a smallish preflop raise - probably a minraise. SB wants to check it down and probably won't put another chip in the pot unless he has you beat once the flop comes down.

eastbay

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t3540)
SB (t4760)
Hero (t1175)
UTG (t525)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t525 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, SB calls t375, Hero...?

What's your action PF and why? I was a bit perplexed when it came up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I make a smallish preflop raise - probably a minraise. SB wants to check it down and probably won't put another chip in the pot unless he has you beat once the flop comes down.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

How is that different than just pushing. Its 300 chips vs 600 in a pot that is already massive and he is pot committed to.

Also, if you do lose your 80% chance (maybe better) against the low stack, you will have kicked your self for not doubling up in the sidepot to someone who was pot committed preflop, and will likely fold to a board that he doesnt hit.

Why the minraise Eastbay, as opposed to the push?

[Gramps]

If you push, it screams "monster." You're telling SB that you would prefer to take your chances against UTG HU (who, if you lose, will have you outchipped 3:1 or so) rather than check it down and give yourself a much better shot at 3rd place and 20% of the prize pool...so...I think any half-aware SB is not calling your push unless he has a good hand (maybe he will anyhow, but you definitely risk him folding).

Of course, a mini-raise may indicate the same thing...but would he fold to that? There he's getting some dang juicy odds to at least see a flop.

I assume the "risk" of letting SB seeing a cheap flop (smooth call or mini-raise) isn't that great compared to the reward of getting his chips - b/c if you lose, he has at least two pair and it's very unlikely that you'll finish 4th...

...I could see an argument for a smooth-call (letting SB hit something and get his chips from there), a mini-raise, or a push...in hindsight I was leaning towards mini-raise as well...but that's in part because I pushed and SB here folded (commenting afterwards that it was obvious I had a monster...which I only then realized seemed obvious...).

[bigredlemon]

Push. You don't have enough chips to min raise. He'll wonder why you're saving 300 chips, and put you on a monster.

[Mr_J]

How'd you go?

[eastbay]

Honestly I didn't look all that closely at Gramps' stack. However, there are many players who refuse to be pushed out of a pot by a minraise, no matter what. I want his chips in there. I think they're more likely to go in on the minraise.

eastbay

[Gramps]

I pushed, SB folded for the extra 650, UTG had AJo and MHWG.

Maybe I'm greedy, but I wish I coulda gotten the 650 out of SB (and risk getting beat). Oh well, I got good cards from there and went on to win.

[CWolf]

Since you get 3rd if you lose the hand anyway, this is actually not a terrible smooth call. If the SB makes a hand that beats your AA, it will beat the UTG pusher the vast majority of the time as well, yielding a 3rd place finish anyway.

I would still push, but a smooth call or miniraise doesn't strike me as a terrible play either.

[Gramps]

Exactly, the twist to this situation is that if you get "burned" by slowplaying and keeping UTG in the hand, it's not sooo bad in that the worst "penalty" for such conduct means you still get 3rd place. By pushing SB out and beating UTG HU, you do a better job of ensuring survival, but you're still low stack at the table. So...it's probably a spot that you can "get cute" more so than normal - doesn't mean that slowplaying is the best play, just that the risk is less than normal (how great the reward is is another matter).

That's why I was a little confused when it happened, and thought it might be interesting to consider in post-analysis.

[Losing all]

If you had more chips, say 1500-2000 I think this might be a spot for some trickery. as is, he's getting big odds, let him fold.

[MrMon]

I think your priority has to be making sure the small stack loses, otherwise he triples up and you won't survive that. Making sure the big stack stays cuts the small stacks chances from 9% to under 6%, assuming he had something like QTo, while cutting your winning odds from 91% to 80%? Worth it? Hmmm. I'll have to think about that, but if it also increases the likelihood that you'll get more of his chips in, rather than him folding, it just might be worth it.