AA first hand...interesting flop

[Ellis]

Stars SnG $5+$1, first hand (blinds 10-20, all stacks 1500)

Hero has A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/heart.gif in MP.

UTG limps, Hero raises to 60. All fold, but BB and UTG call.

flop Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG moves all-in.

obviously no reads, as this is the first hand. nut flush draw and overpair.

your move.....

[jah0550]

Are you joking? What better hand do you want to see? AAxflop?

[Ellis]

no, but I don't want to put all my chips in with a 35% chance of making my hand against a made flush. why does UTG move in unless he's protecting a weak flush?

[Ellis]

actually less than 35% if I'm putting him on 2 diamonds

[sofere]

First hand of tourney...I shed a tear and muck...doubling up now will be nice, but not worth the risk. There will be better spots to pick. I have to be 95% certain I have the best of it to go all-in in the first 2 rounds.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
no, but I don't want to put all my chips in with a 35% chance of making my hand against a made flush. why does UTG move in unless he's protecting a weak flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

For any one of a thousand other reasons, such as protecting a king, because he has a pair and a diamond and thinks he's ahead, or because he sucks.

[ QUOTE ]
First hand of tourney...I shed a tear and muck...doubling up now will be nice, but not worth the risk. There will be better spots to pick. I have to be 95% certain I have the best of it to go all-in in the first 2 rounds.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's, like, the opposite of good advice.

[partygirluk]

That is really weak tight. IT is hard to construct a hand that someone would limp in with, then call a aise (which should have been larger than 40 more btw), and then hit a flush. Perhaps KJ diamonds, in which case you have 28% or so to still win the hand.

The average LL player would not push with the made flush here. MUCH more likely is that he is semibluffing the King of Diamonds, out and out bluffing, Has something like a QJ or KJ and wants to "protect his hand" etc. Other possible hands are MAYBE a made flush and also a set is possible, but these only form a small subset of his possible hands. Grow some balls and shove em in.

[Ellis]

[ QUOTE ]
Grow some bulls and shove em in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I folded. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ilya]

Insta-call.

[Ellis]

[ QUOTE ]
That is really weak tight. IT is hard to construct a hand that someone would limp in with, then call a aise (which should have been larger than 40 more btw),

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, I should have said I raised 60, not to 60--sorry. Raised 60 TO 80, apologies

[Ellis]

general question:
is there anything wrong w/ being "weak-tight" (as I was just accused of) in the first couple stages? there are more maniacs early and being very cautious (weak-tight) seems to work early.

[sofere]

Didn't see that he had the Ad...with the draw to the nut...call...sorry.

[partygirluk]

Yes. Imagine that the SB moves all in on you the first hand. You have KK. You know for 100% sure, that he does this with a pair, and only a pair. Any pair. You are folding this. That is horrible play. You have turned down an 80% chance to double up. And if you think turning down an 80% chance to double up is good strategy, you might as well be folding AA pre flop too. I am really tired and going to bed now, but it should be pretty obvious that that is not winning play.

[bigredlemon]

He's a 2:1 underdog to make the flush. If this same situation happened 100 times, how many times will UTG has only a pair and a draw?

[Ellis]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. Imagine that the SB moves all in on you the first hand. You have KK. You know for 100% sure, that he does this with a pair, and only a pair. Any pair. You are folding this. That is horrible play. You have turned down an 80% chance to double up. And if you think turning down an 80% chance to double up is good strategy, you might as well be folding AA pre flop too. I am really tired and going to bed now, but it should be pretty obvious that that is not winning play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am folding that? What? uh, I think you're making some ridiculous assumptions. in the hand I posted, there is a 3 flush on the flop. where you got me folding kings preflop, I don't know. playing really tight and somewhat passive ealry doesn't mean you fold kings to the SB. way to knock down a strawman. I recommend a logic class.

[captZEEbo1]

call every time. There is a GREAT chance he's "protecting" top pair Qs. Oh yeah, and raise more preflop.

My guess is that he'd "slowplay" a made flush at the $5 level....

[partygirluk]

The original quote that sparked this debate was:

"I have to be 95% certain I have the best of it to go all-in in the first 2 rounds."

I recommend Maths and Reading classes. I tutor Maths. PM me if interested.

[Ellis]

Your reply came directly after my post that asked whether there was anything wrong w/ being weak-tight in early rounds. So, I naturally assumed you were replying to that. You should have indicated otherwise if you were not.

Not sure what "maths" are. Thanks for the tutoring offer, but I'm just fine over here at my Ivy League institution, thanks. By the way, my opponent showed two diamonds. keep talking sh*t.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]


Not sure what "maths" are. Thanks for the tutoring offer, but I'm just fine over here at my Ivy League institution, thanks. By the way, my opponent showed two diamonds. keep talking sh*t.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't know what she means by 'maths', then I highly doubt that you are at one of the 8 Ivy League schools.

[bigredlemon]

how high was his diamonds?

[Iconoclastic]

Every player has a 6% chance of holding two cards of the same suit when the board has three of the same suit. So that means there's a 12% chance someone has a flush on the flop.

I've been in a VERY similar situation to yours, and I didn't expect the made flush either, thought he was just protecting a pair or something. It didn't turn out pretty for me either.

Weak tight is folding KK preflop. Weak tight is not throwing caution into the wind with basically a coinflip on the first hand, where folding will still leave you with a very healthy stack.

[Ellis]

Obviously I was being condescending and kidding about her use of the term “maths.” And yes, I do attend an Ivy League school--the University of Pennsylvania to be precise.

[Ellis]

JdTd

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously I was being condescending and kidding about her use of the term “maths.” And yes, I do attend an Ivy League school--the University of Pennsylvania to be precise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure you didn't know that 'maths' is a common term for our 'math' in english speaking European countries, but nice save.

You certainly are condescending though! By the way, any claims on this board about Ivy League schools or things like SAT scores are never respected, and really shouldn't be used in online discussion, so you might not want to keep using it in the future.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously I was being condescending and kidding about her use of the term “maths.” And yes, I do attend an Ivy League school--the University of Pennsylvania to be precise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you see the "UK" at the end of the name of the poster to whom you were replying?

Maths. Yup, maths. Kind of like truck/lorry.

[Ellis]

It wasn't a "save," I'm sorry if you didn't believe my response. Also, I was pulling rank after a poster offered to tutor me on academic subjects. It had nothing to do with poker, but thanks for the advice (see if you can find which sentence is the sarcastic one here, genius).

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
It wasn't a "save," I'm sorry if you didn't believe my response. Also, I was pulling rank after a poster offer to tutor me on academic subjects. It had nothing to do with poker, but thanks for the advice (see if you can find which sentence is the sarcastic one here, genius).

[/ QUOTE ]

You were the one recommending academics first, I believe. No need to get so emotional on these boards, as sometimes people will post things you greatly disagree with. As for 'pulling rank'... like I said, no one cares where you claim to go to college, or any other claim you may make. It is an internet forum and people can say anything they want in those regards.

I am a frequent poster on this forum and am just trying to educate you on some edicate, but I am certainly not 'pulling rank'.

[Ellis]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a frequent poster on this forum and am just trying to educate you on some edicate, but I am certainly not 'pulling rank'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I’m sure you meant etiquette, I'll "save" ya. Nice read of my emotions over the net, though. Thanks for the education.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am a frequent poster on this forum and am just trying to educate you on some edicate, but I am certainly not 'pulling rank'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I’m sure you meant etiquette, I'll "save" ya. Nice read of my emotions over the net, though. Thanks for the education.

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem, when I first started I almost posted my math SAT's to help win an argument /images/graemlins/cool.gif, but then realized no one would care (or believe), nor would it add value to the discussion. We all make mistakes, no biggy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[partygirluk]

Which part of " Re: AA first hand...interesting flop [Re: sofere]" was it that so confused you? You seem to be rather ignorant. You state this is in a $5+1 on Pokerstars. AFAIK, no such tournaments exist. I really would recommend those reading classes. With you being at an Ivy League school. I mean, everyone who goes there is ultra smart right? And then they'll have like exams and stuff and they will be, like, really hard, and like, if you can't read, its kinda like, a problem dude.
Observation is also extremely important in poker. I think you should work on it. Also, if you wish to prosper on these forums, I suggest you don't attack people who have given their time up to try and help you improve your game.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if you wish to prosper on these forums, I suggest you don't attack people who have given their time up to try and help you improve your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly... but I think he's been thoroughly educated on a few issues now.

[Ellis]

As your post comes directly after mine, I assumed it was in response to mine. At no point in your thread did you indicate to which post you were responding. Maybe there is another way of organizing the thread, but on my screen your response came right after my question about being passive and tight early.

As for the Stars issue, YOU ARE RIGHT. It’s $5+$.50 unlike Party. Sorry about the slip up; I’m sure you can understand if you too play on both sites. I don’t think this speaks to observational powers as they relate to poker. Were this a valid inference, many of the top posters here aren’t observational enough to catch spelling mishaps and other grammatical slip-ups.

As for the rest of your post, thanks for the repeated suggestion on “reading classes.” We don’t have them here. However, if you want to read my thesis, “Searle’s Chinese Room: The Explanatory and Cognitive Failures of Computational Operations based Artificial Intelligence,” I will happily email it to you. Afterward, you can tell me all about my powers of observation.

Have fun blogging, I’m going out. Weren’t you going to sleep anyway?

Thanks for the education.


TRN
UPenn
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php

[pshreck]

This guy ain't gonna last....

[rybones]

hey, I have an Ivy league education! I attend Wrigly. Not many know that it is the 9th of the Ivy schools. The classes are summer school only. I love it! The professors let you drink beer; course they cost $6.00 a pop, but what the hell it's an Ivy league education.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bigredlemon]

So he read no one had a made flush and moved all in to protect it. Funny... I put him on JdTd the first time I read your post.

[partygirluk]

"“Searle’s Chinese Room: The Explanatory and Cognitive Failures of Computational Operations based Artificial Intelligence,”

"TRN
UPenn
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php" (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php)

I did not realise that you went to an Ivy League uni and have written a thesis with a fancy title. Please forgive me.

[rybones]

This TRN seems rather up tight? does anyone other than me think he nees to spend less time on his thesis and more time getting laid?

Just a thought TRN. I hope it helps.

Ryan

[Mr_J]

"many of the top posters here aren’t observational enough to catch spelling mishaps and other grammatical slip-ups."

That's because it's unnecessary. Forums are about discussing idea's etc, not spelling 101.

I'd also like to point out that level of education does not necessarily reflect level of intelligence. People who try to 'pull rank' using academic qualifications are
a-holes who don't understand true intelligence.

"Searle’s Chinese Room: The Explanatory and Cognitive Failures of Computational Operations based Artificial Intelligence,” "

Wow that sounds so interesting.

"I’m going out."

Heh that's the worst bluff I've ever seen. It's obvious you don't have much of a life /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[pshreck]

Think how ridiculous the forum would be if we all started using our life successes as arguments? I know for a fact several players on this board are more than millionares, and Im sure tons have gone to Ivy league schools and/or written a thesis. I rarely see people incorporate it into threads, and it's always pretty sad when they do, like in this case.

[partygirluk]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/smirk.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[adanthar]

Blah blah blah thesis okay.

I go to a top 10 law school, scored a 1530 on my SAT's, and I think your question is weak tight and you suck.

PS: My e-penis is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuge.

PPS: For someone who went to an Ivy and wrote a thesis on AI you sure do make a lot of logical fallacies.

PPPS: No one cares.

[rybones]

my goodness, I'll bet your girlfriend is:

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaapy

[rybones]

I am not sure why I keep reading and posting in this thread? I have had a truly crappy week and all I can say is this thread made me happy.

TRN, I LOVE YOU and your agression toward others. If I quit poker I think I will write a thesis titled "The communicative affects of being pissy toward those who try to help: The TRN effect." What do you think? can I get some grant money from Penn? or should I just keep working at Univ. of Wrigley?

[adanthar]

Yeah, she likes it a lot. You haven't lived until you've had sex for thirty seven hours in a row.

At the same time.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure why I keep reading and posting in this thread? I have had a truly crappy week and all I can say is this thread made me happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its the same reason I hate bloggers, but read BLOGS. Just a bunch of people who are full of themselves, but it is usually funny and interesting to see somebody write about how full of themself they are.

[Mr_J]

"for thirty seven hours in a row"

hope you kept yourselves hydrated. Anyone know what the longest session actually is?

I think you're bluffin. I think most guys who represent having a large penis are just fronting, trying to cover up the fact that they don't have a sex life /images/graemlins/wink.gif . Even if you aren't, that's really too much info anyway.

[Bremen]

[ QUOTE ]
"The communicative affects of being pissy toward those who try to help: The TRN effect."

[/ QUOTE ]

You need more big words. Something like, "Information Flow Disruptions of Large Scale Information Interchanges by Hyper Aggresive Dominance Posturing."

[adanthar]

Don't worry, I was only talking about my penis on the Internet.

But still, it's a well known fact no man with a net connection has ever measured under ten inches.

[Mr_J]

"under ten inches"

what that's it? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The communicative affects of being pissy toward those who try to help: The TRN effect."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You need more big words. Something like, "Information Flow Disruptions of Large Scale Information Interchanges by Hyper Aggresive Dominance Posturing."

[/ QUOTE ]

LO fing L