Awful play, when should i have folded ?

[stonecold]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Flop: (9.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

I know this was a really bad play, i have just entered the game have no extra info to give you...

just how bad was my play ?
What should i have done ?

[thatguy79]

OK, so I'm a newb to the board and to the game, and this is my first post, so don't take me too seriously. Here's my opinion.

Your play was fine until you were raised on the flop. I would have just called this and checked the turn to fold to that bet. With a 3-flush on the board, I would be very wary of an aggressive player.

[stonecold]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, so I'm a newb to the board and to the game, and this is my first post, so don't take me too seriously. Here's my opinion.

Your play was fine until you were raised on the flop. I would have just called this and checked the turn to fold to that bet. With a 3-flush on the board, I would be very wary of an aggressive player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but when i 3-bet i said to myself that i will fold to a cap... but didnt... very strange...

What would have been best folding to a cap or call raise an fold to bet ?

[ErrantNight]

raise preflop. call a 3-bet if there is one.

if it's not already headsup after MP3 3-bets you on the flop, i'm ok with betting, calling a raise, check/calling the turn, betting the river, folding to a raise.

if it's headsup after MP3 3-bets you, check/call the flop and turn, bet the river, fold to a raise.

[pokerjo22]

I don't think you should fold this, but without a read on the player its hard. An aggressive player could easily be going for a lone club flush draw. He could of course have Aces, Kings or AQ, but he could also have AK, or a smaller pocker pair. Enough there for me to check call to the river. Being afraid of a flopped flush seems overly paranoid.

[mistrpug]

Easy preflop raise.

I think I call the flop raise rather than 3-bet, but I don't hate it. Folding to a cap on the flop after you 3-bet is a crime. If you'd fold to a cap in this spot, don't 3-bet it.

I think you played the turn and river fine.

I don't think your play was "awful" at all. The worst part was by far missing the preflop raise.

[krishanleong]

Raise preflop, flop is fine. Call down is fine. MP could be pushing As, As9x, As4x, KQ, QxXs. Lots of things you beat. I wouldn't want to put more than one bet on expensive streets so the call down is fine.

Krishan

[StellarWind]

Preflop it doesn't matter much if you raise or call.

Two reasonable flop plays:

1. Try to protect your hand by betting into the PFR. This may put him out if he missed the flop or he may clear the field for you by raising.

2. Check and see what happens. You don't really have a lot of pot equity here considering that you are often far behind the PFR and probably can't stand another club or even an ace. Play the flop cheaply and see the turn card. Then decide whether to fold, call down, or take the initiative.

You did well by betting and getting heads up. Your big mistake was 3-betting the flop after you got heads up. Probably he's either crushing you or he's got about 12 outs. I don't see how you can profitably put an extra bet in and expose yourself to a raise.

The flop cap could easily be a nut flush draw. You certainly can't fold for 1 SB. Since you avoided all the death cards on the big streets you should call him down.

[stonecold]

Ok so i cant fold to a cap and i shouldnt have 3 bet him.
so i will profit by playing the hand all the way in such situations ?

He had the Aces, one of them where a club.

But can i get a explanation why i should raise KQoff preflop in early position ?

[carlk73]

The simple answer is don't raise KQo preflop in EP. In a ring game there's a good chance that a player in a later position may have you dominated and re-raise accordingly, costing you 3 bets just to see a flop. That's too expensive for a KQo.

[chris_a]

If you are going to 3-bet, don't fold to a cap. The pot is already sizeable so pay an extra small bet to see that next card. Fold to the big bet on the turn if you are going to fold. You are getting much worse odds on this call than the call of the cap after you have 3-bet.

[prox]

he could easily be capping with the A of club or also a pair of queens or smaller pair with a decent club.

You need to bet the turn so he won't get a free card. If you get raised, then that tells you he's not on a draw and you're probably beat with no outs to the flush.

I have no problems with the preflop limp, though in early position this might even be a fold possibility.

[cpk]

Though I personally prefer raising pre-flop with KQo, there are times when it is a bad idea. Generally, in 2/4 games I'm not terribly worried about it, as I will dominate much more often than I am dominated. You're also trying to narrow the field with unsuited cards. However, those trying to minimize risk may limp with it, and I'm not critical of that approach, either. Therefore, I counsel you to consider raising, but do what most suits your style of play, and most of all think about it.

As for post-flop, when faced with a hostile board but a probably winning hand, my thoughts turn to two problems. First, I want to protect my interests by charging people to draw to one-card flushes. Second, I want to avoid being outplayed, so I want to get to a showdown cheaply. Therefore, I'm inclined to bet, but simply call it all the way down in the face of aggression from an opponent.

Once you've three-bet, you're committed to a course of action which is untenable in either direction. Either you're paying $10 to draw all-but-dead, or you are considering folding a hand where you're way ahead.

Avoid this problem in the future by going limp after one bet. If you had, say, the K/images/graemlins/club.gif you could then three bet as you are more likely to be drawing live.