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View Full Version : How do YOU beat this guy?


Iconoclastic
12-17-2004, 03:13 PM
Disclaimer: the pronoun 'he' in the following post refers to the type of player that I'm encountering, not one specific person.

This is happening to me frequently lately. 6 player SnG (1+.1 on Superior Poker). Top two pay. It's down to heads up between me and a Loose player. By this time I usually have 3000 chips and he will have 6000 due to his Loose style with blinds at 200-400.

This is what he does:

Preflop never raise, call any raise with anything. I don't have a problem with the passivity although sometimes I get trapped. But I can make up for it by outdrawing him and getting in as a favorite when I have a good hand.

EVERY single flop, when I don't bet, he will bet the minimum, whether he has nothing at all, something, or the nuts. And if I don't reraise him, he'll repeat this for the Turn and River as well. He will call a raise or reraise with anything as well, so any bluffing is out of the question. Once he called a pot all in bet on the Flop with 7 high!!

My dilemma is this: the minimum now is getting to be about a ninth of my stack or more, making it a push or fold situation because if I call minimum bets to the river and lose, it'll be "I'm desperate and have to gamble with any 2" the next hand anyway.

If I only push when I have at least medium pair, that leaves about 70% of the time when I will be folding. So he'll be taking the pot 70% of the time, which bleeds my stack even more. Let's assume he'll call every time I push (30% of the hands). If I win 66% of those pushes (a rough estimate because sometimes he'll have a better hand and sometimes he'll outdraw me). My calculations indicate, assuming the premises are correct, that this strategy will yield an EV of +18 chips. 18!! Is that the best I can do??

If I push with at least low pair instead of medium pair, which I would say happens 35% of the time instead of 30%, and I win around 60% of those pushes instead of 66%, my EV goes down to negative.

If I push with at least Top Pair, I'd say that would be 20% of the time, and I win 75% of my Pushes with him calling everytime, that would also yield a -EV.

I can't tighten up anymore postflop because even folding once at this stage makes our stacks 6400-2600, and after merely one more fold it becomes 6800-2200, which again makes my situation desperate.

Am I left with, 'if ya can't beat em, join em?" Just call every minimum bet to the river every hand no matter what I have?

Another possible strategy is to fold everytime I'm the small blind unless I push. Assuming I push 30% of the time and he'll call every time and I'll win 66% of the time, this yields a EV of +45chips. However, I'm not sure if they'll call everytime preflop. If they only call 50% of the time (presumably with a more selective hand) I push a good hand from the SB my EV becomes negative. But this still doesn't solve the main problem when I'm in the BB.

Mathematical analysis is appreciated.

sofere
12-17-2004, 03:57 PM
push any ace-med kicker, 2 broadway cards, any pocket as you will be a favorite against his range of calling hands. You're ITM, blinds are big and you're short stack so you'll have to be happy with small favorite....JMO

spentrent
12-17-2004, 05:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
push any ace-med kicker, 2 broadway cards, any pocket as you will be a favorite against his range of calling hands. You're ITM, blinds are big and you're short stack so you'll have to be happy with small favorite....JMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I'm "that guy" and this is exactly what I want you to start thinking. Once you start pushing all your chips in every other hand it becomes +EV for me to call with any ace.

When I'm up against "that guy" I just try to keep boxing and mirror his game to some extent. He calls, I min-raise. He min-raises, I min-reraise. Flops hits me, I push.

The best part is that after you have a min-bet image, lesser players start folding to any of your pot-proportional bets on any street. Now you've got 'em thinking all-or-nothing which is the kind of opponent I want to face heads up.

sofere
12-17-2004, 06:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
When I'm up against "that guy" I just try to keep boxing and mirror his game to some extent. He calls, I min-raise. He min-raises, I min-reraise. Flops hits me, I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess what...you just min-raised over 50% of your stack before u saw the flop. Whats the difference between that and pushing when the blinds are 1/8 your stack?

spentrent
12-17-2004, 08:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I'm up against "that guy" I just try to keep boxing and mirror his game to some extent. He calls, I min-raise. He min-raises, I min-reraise. Flops hits me, I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess what...you just min-raised over 50% of your stack before u saw the flop. Whats the difference between that and pushing when the blinds are 1/8 your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, on Party Poker, or another site where the blinds go up very quickly. On a site like Stars, you usually have a lot more room to play when only two are left.

And OF COURSE what I said is useless when you qualify the game as you did in the part I bolded. Guess what: notice that I did not qualify the game as such. Something more constructive to say?

eastbay
12-17-2004, 08:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Disclaimer: the pronoun 'he' in the following post refers to the type of player that I'm encountering, not one specific person.

This is happening to me frequently lately. 6 player SnG (1+.1 on Superior Poker). Top two pay. It's down to heads up between me and a Loose player. By this time I usually have 3000 chips and he will have 6000 due to his Loose style with blinds at 200-400.

This is what he does:

Preflop never raise, call any raise with anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play from the SB seems obvious enough. You know his calling range (any two), so with a proportional equity assumption you know the value of any raise or fold. Pick the higher of the two.

Since I don't face this guy in my games, it's not worth it to work out the proper strategy from the BB, which is more complex, but probably tractable if he is really this mechanical.

eastbay

Iconoclastic
12-17-2004, 09:27 PM
This is what I'll try next time:

Assuming:

I will push preflop 30% of the time (basically any PP, Q8o or better)
He will call my preflop push 50% of the time, when he folds I'll win 400 chips.
If he calls, I will win 60% of the time, doubling up from 3000 to 6000.
I will fold 35% of the time as SB with a shitty hand and lose 200 chips.
We will see a flop 35% of the time (when I'm in the BB and I don't push) as he never raises preflop.

I will push on the Flop 30% of the time (medium pair or better).
He will call my Flop push 100% of the time.
I will win the Flop push 66% of the time.
I will check or fold on the Flop 70% of the time and lose 400 chips.

Total EV: +66 chips.

betgo
12-17-2004, 09:46 PM
This is pretty poor and predictable play, typical for a $1 SNG. Obviously, you raise for value preflop. Trap him postflop by smooth calling when you have a strong hand.

sofere
12-18-2004, 01:32 AM
Sorry, i shouldn't have acted like i was talking down...I am definitely not good enought to talk down to people and for that I apologize.

The question asked mentioned 400 blinds and being 3k vs 6k stack.