pocket pair vs A on board

[Guy McSucker]

I've been going over some hand histories. Here is a situation that came up a few times which I am not sure I handle correctly.

Party $5/10 6-max. You have a good pocket pair, TT-KK, in the big blind.

Folded to the button. Let's call him an unknown. He raises. SB folds. You clearly 3-bet.

The flop comes something like A 7 3, one overcard to your pair, that being an ace.

You bet out, he raises.

How do you proceed? What kind of plans are you making here?

Guy.

[imitation]

Fold most of the time, unless I've been in this situation at the table or with the player a few times recently and have reason to think they're making a play at me. Also i'd err towards CR this flop also, though this will on occasion get A-bad kicker to slow down where you are still losing.

[helpmeout]

I fold because you are out of position.

If you are ahead he will check the turn or river if you call down. If you are behind he will bet all the way.

If you have position then you get to raise his bet, bet the turn and check the river.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Also i'd err towards CR this flop also,


[/ QUOTE ]

You 3-bet a raiser preflop, an ace falls, and you want to check-raise?

That seems insane to me. Who's going to bet into the preflop 3-bettor when an A falls without having an ace themselves?

Guy.

[Jeff W]

I fold by default on a rainbow board.

Reads and table image may swing this to a call down.

[spider]

I call it down against the button with no read. Lots of hands he could have that you beat. If the raise is from earlier, you can think about folding especially the lower your pair is.

But if you want to fold it, I would at least see if he bets the turn. A lot of folks will auto-raise the flop there regardless of what they have. And for many of them, the flop raise indicates they DON'T have an ace b/c they would wait until the turn to raise if they did.

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Also i'd err towards CR this flop also, though this will on occasion get A-bad kicker to slow down where you are still losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this course of action. then, if button 3-bets, you can fold easily, and if he calls, probably best to then check/fold. the problem being that your opponent's raise of your bet-out on the flop really doesn't give you much info. easily could be a buy w/any pair.

cheers!

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also i'd err towards CR this flop also,


[/ QUOTE ]

You 3-bet a raiser preflop, an ace falls, and you want to check-raise?

That seems insane to me. Who's going to bet into the preflop 3-bettor when an A falls without having an ace themselves?

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

anyone who senses weakness in Hero's flop check, will often times make a play for the pot with any two cards.

there is a player i have been playing against nightly on 2 tables for the past week and a half or so. he is a TAG to be certain. i have started to defend my blind with virtually any two halfway decent cards against him, and if an Ace hits the flop, i bet into him. i've done this 5 times thus far, and have taken the pot without so much as a whimper against him 4 of those. the other time, he raised, i dumped...end of story.

cheers!

[MrFeelNothin]

I agree with tripdad and imitation. Heads up with position, most players will raise any hand they raised pf to try and represent the Ace. Betting out and getting raised gives you no information and its going to cost you 2.5 more BBs to go to showdown if youre beat. If you check the flop and he is passive and checks behind with an inferior hand, no big loss you can probably get him to put in as many bets as he would have still as he will probably call down after you check flop. When he does have the ace and you CR you can fold to a 3bet, if he just calls i would probably bet turn/fold to raise, check/call river.

[spider]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=969383&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=all&vc=1

FWIW, this small stakes Ed Miller thread (QQ on K22 flop) may be applicable. Or not.

[Guy McSucker]

OK, I understand that play now - thanks!

I am prepared to bet there are a ton of little things like this which lead me to play sub-optimally pos-flop, which are the source of my difficulties in this game.

Thanks again,

Guy.

[imitation]

Guy there is a very good thread somewhere on CR HU. In it strip says something like, when you lead out HU you want a very strong hand that you actually want to 3-bet. When you bet and get raised by a pf-raisor what do you know? nothing really, CR is a lot stronger and costs less. But I do like to mix my play so I will not always CR with out an A and I will not always lead out with an A.