A puzzle

Limit hold'em game.


Final board is: 2h 8h 9s Ac Qs, in that order (A was turn, Q was river).


Before the flop: A good player (called A from here out) limps in (just calls), a unknown player calls (B), and so does the best player(C) on the table on the button. The small blind folds and the big blind checks.


Betting after the flop went like this:


Blind folds out of turn (a no no, but it happens). A bets, B raises, C reraises, A caps it at four bets. B and C call.


Turn betting goes: A keeps betting, B raises!, C cold calls (calls two bets with none of his own in), A raises again (making it three bets), B just calls.


River betting goes: A bets again, B calls, C raises!, A just calls, and B optimistically calls.


B holds Ah Qh. C wins the hand.


What hand does C likely have?


What hand does A likely have?


Why?


How good do you think player B is? How did he play?

I'd say A has 9hTh and B has Ax9x or 8x9x

"What hand does C likely have?"


Jh-Th. I think this because of the cold-call on the turn after the flop action. The flop action tells me C has either a "made" hand such as 9-9 or a good draw. On the turn, he calls 2 big bets getting 5.5-1 odds, knowing there is a possibility that A will re-raise and B may even cap the betting. C can call with an open-ended nut straight which he will hit a little more than 1 time out of 6 (I think) if all 8 outs are good.


I don't think C puts B on the nut flush draw after B's turn raise. I think he believes all 8 of his straight outs are good and probably the hearts that don't pair the board.


"What hand does A likely have?"


Set of 9's...A is pounding the pot as hard as he can. When he caps the flop I believe he is trying to make the draws pay the maximum and his opening bet on the turn confirms this. He has a made hand that is vulnerable to the straight and flush draws and he doesn't want to give free cards. I don't think A limped first in pre-flop with 9-8 or 2-2, so a set of 8's or 9's as an opening hand seems most likely. He wasn't afraid of C's re-raise on the flop or B's raise on the turn so I give him top set on the flop, 9-9 in the hole.


"How good do you think player B is? How did he play?"


In a game so tight that the BB open-folds on the flop I would probably raise A-Q suited before the flop after one early limper. Probably doesn't change the outcome of this hand.


I don't understand B's turn raise. A is not going to fold and will probably re-raise, and there is no point in trying to drive C out of the pot.


Hard to fold top 2 pair on the river in a big pot, but I don't think B should have called C's raise after A called as he is clearly beaten at least by C.


Why did A bet the river?

Jon,


Actually we know that C doesn't have just a busted straight flush draw since he called two bets on the river, which he wouldn't do with Jack high.


We also know that nobody had trip 9's since the winning hand was two pair, aces and queens.

Backdoor,


A has a set of 8s or 9s. C has JT both hearts.


Bs play is pretty aggressive throughout. I dunno about the raise on the flop with 2 overcards and the nut flush draw. I think it would have been better just for him to call given his position. Bs turn play is also a overaggressive given A four-bets the flop. His AQ suited is nowhere near the best hand.


C gets lucky that the offsuit Q hits the river and rakes a nice pot.


Mike

A had most likely a set 8's or 9's, more likely 8's if he's more prone to limp with 8's than 9's


C has JhTh for the nuts.


Player B overplayed his hand, since the heavy betting on the flop, and A keeping betting on the turn indicates he's beat (even with the ace) and therefore he's drawing to his nut flush. He should have just called on the turn, since at this point he wont get anyone out and there's a good chance if he raises that he gets raised back.


Regards

I put C on JT, possibly JhTh. Top side of an open-ended straight draw, plus redraws to the flush. He slowed down on the turn, fearing a high flush draw, but still having his straight outs.


A probably has a pocket 8s or 9s. No raise in early position makes sense, and then playing strongly to attempt to avoid what eventually happened. 98s is also a possibility. The bet on the end is a little suspicious, however, but in a loose/semi-weak game a set may just hold up.


Before the flop, B should've raised, but it probably wouldn't have knocked out JhTh. After the flop I think B played just fine and simply didn't get his draw. I wouldn't call this is a suckout, because with my reads, each hand was legitimate to be in at the end.

B did not win the hand with Aces-up, C won the hand.

A flopped a set,


B has A9 or AXh (big X including Q)


C has JT


My justification


From C perspective


C is the button... and a great player relatively easy call preflop. On the flop he is getting 3:1 on his reraise, he isn't going to fold his overcards and open ender, so he might as well try for a free card.


On the turn, missed but not going anywhere. My reraise on the flop slowed no one down. Just cold call.


River, hit the nuts pound away.


From B's perspective


I am an unknown, maybe I limp with A9 or AQ suited. Very tough to say how he plays, I have seen people optimistacally call with middle pair on the river.


From A's perspective


Flopped a set, coordinated board charge the max.


Turn doesn't suit or straighten the board fly away.


River, put C on a flush draw not a straight draw... oops can't fold set too much money in the pot.


Derrick


Derrick

Here's what I think.


C. pretty obviously has JhTh. On the flop, he has (he thinks) an open ended straight and flush draw. That's alot of outs (15). Its better than 50% to complete that draw (not the same as winning).


A. almost certainly has a set of 8s or 9s or he is crazy. Some small case could be made for AA, that setted up on the turn, or he somehow limped with 22, which would only be justified in loose passive games. The cap on the flop and the fact that B holds the other A, make AA unlikely. On the flop, two pair is possible, but the subsequent action denies this.


B. I think be overplayed his hand. The raise on the turn is too much. The A didn't really improve his hand, as it is clear that somebody (at this point it hard to say that C has a draw), has him beat bad. A very good player should also be able to fold that river. It IS dangerous to fold in big pots, but this is one of those times you should think about it- especially after C raises. Its pretty clear C has a straight, and B is third. He probably should have raised before the flop, but AQs is one hand that doesn't mind multiway, so its not a "bad" play, per se.


Thanks. My answers are just my own, the important thing is to be able to reasonably justify your position.


Good luck.

"Player B overplayed his hand"


I agree.

"I wouldn't call this is a suckout, because with my reads, each hand was legitimate to be in at the end."


Definitely. JTh thinks he's better than 50% to make his hand on the flop, since he doesn't know there is a bigger flush out there.

You got this down pretty good.

"Bs play is pretty aggressive throughout. I dunno about the raise on the flop with 2 overcards and the nut flush draw. I think it would have been better just for him to call given his position."


By raising the flop, B improves his chances of winning the pot without a showdown (remember at this point, he does not know the power he is against). His raise could also drive out the button (again doesnt know what he has), which would give him position throughout the hand. He might also opt to take free cards if he so chooses and is able to later in the hand. Raising has a lot of advantages on the flop. The turn raise is questionable given the action.

You pretty much solved it other than misreading that I told you B had AQh but that's a minor point.

Mr. Hat,


Sometimes I wear a baseball cap when I play. If I have my cap too low, its hard to read the cards :)


I think you misread the post.


Regards

.,.,.,.,