How'd I do? PP NL50 6-max

[Raiser]

I don't have the hand history, so this is from memory. Villain in this hand is a little loose before and after the flop, but is okay in general.

Our stacks are both around $60.

I get Q /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif on the button. UTG folds, Villain calls, CO calls, I call, SB folds, BB knocks.

Flop is Q94r. Checked to me, I bet $3.50, villain is only caller. Pot is ~$11.

Turn is 8 completing rainbow. Villain checks, I check behind.

River is K. Villain bets $8, I call.

Do I suck? Who plays this differently?

Thanks in advance.

[amoeba]

I think its alright but why no bet on the turn?

[AncientPC]

Bet the turn, either bet again or check behind on the river.

[Wayfare]

I play it exactly the same, although I am not happy to see him betting the river.

EDIT: Actually, I probably fire $8 on the turn.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Who plays this differently?

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise limpers with QJs on the button...
2 limpers, make it 6 total.

[Benal]

Yep, raise it up preflop. Pot it on the flop, and scoop it up.

[fimbulwinter]

yeah, i'm a bastard like that too.

Sure is fun playing omaha holding AKQJ when everyone else only gets two cards though...

fim

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, i'm a bastard like that too.

Sure is fun playing omaha holding AKQJ when everyone else only gets two cards though...

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

hahah B I N G O

[JaBlue]

I don't play 6-max, but with QJsuited you want a lot of people in the pot. Why raise preflop to stop this? Would you raise with 66 here? If not, I don't understand raising with QJsuited.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play 6-max, but with QJsuited you want a lot of people in the pot. Why raise preflop to stop this? Would you raise with 66 here? If not, I don't understand raising with QJsuited.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tons of good things happen:
1. You have tons of stealing equity if it's checked to you
2. You can see a 4 card flop when people check to the raiser, if it's convenient
3. Your hand is well disguised if you do happen to hit a big flop
4. You're increasing the stakes when you have position, which means every profitable move being in position is 'more +'

Plus, depending on your table image, you could pick up a bunch of blinds uncontested, which happens quite a bit.
And, if you show it, you'll get action on your later hands.
But I dont like showing, because I only get big hands like once every 80 hands or so! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[amoeba]

I believe their reasoning is that when they hit the straight, its pretty well disguised and highly likely that the A or K in the straight paired up somebody.

When they don't hit the straight and its checked to them in the button, they can take it down on the flop.

The other reasoning is that out of the non pair hands, you are only dominated by Kj, AJ, AQ, KQ. most of these you would have heard from preflop if they held it. and if you raise preflop, its tough for a guy who is ABC to call out of position with Kj, KQ, AJ, AQ because he is thinking you have AK. so you have an opportunity to fold out hands that dominate you preflop.

[fimbulwinter]

you can answer this question...

consider what people generally assume a preflop raiser holds.

consider the actual cards he holds.

consider the kind of cards that semi-bad players play against a raise.

consider the level of attachment the raiser will have to his hand should one of his bluffing outs come and someone has taken the time/effort to flop a set.

consider the above if he actually has made a pair.

consider the hands he will be bluffing at and what type of bluff those hands will generally provide him with.

consider the size(s) of pots that he will win with having made this raise.

consider the size(s) of pots that he will lose.

finally, consider metagame aspects of being able to show down QJ as a raise in position the next time you raise AA or AK in the same position.

fim

[amoeba]

ironically, raising with QJ on the button is almost better with limpers than without.

[Raiser]

I hadn't even considered this as an option. I have a long way to go. I do see how it could be a very profitible play.

My question is, what range of hands do you make this play with? Any pocket pair? Any decent suited connector (say down to 76s)? Any big ace?

[Pawtucket Pat]

I doubt I'll be able to explain this as well as many, but I'll take a stab at it. The pf raise here is good for a few reasons. First, you have a fairly strong hand on the button, which is a huge advantage in NL. QJs does well in a multi-way pot, but I'd raise it to around $3 because it has decent high card strenght, but not great. You'd like KJo or KQo to fold. AK or AQ probably would have already raised, so its ok not to worry about those. You have the button, so you'll be able to push people off this pot more easily in later betting rounds. There are many ways to hit with this hand, but hitting the Q or J will happen most often. No one has shown any stength so far, so you very well could have the best hand and you can get a few callers with a raise to about $2.50 or $3. The raise should knock out a couple callers or the blinds, but others will make the mistake and call with a worse hand, which is what you want.

Raising with lower connectors or low pairs is very questionable, because if you don't hit those hands on the flop, then you'll need to dump them on the flop. This doesn't happen enough to make the raise profitable. The other thing to remember is that in NL, the implied odds of hands can be enormous, and if you hit a set of 4's for instance, you've got a huge hand that few can put you on.

The rest of this hand plays itself, the villain appears to be drawing, so punish him for it with a big turn bet, more than half the pot. If he's gonna call, make him do it with terrible odds. This guy hasn't shown any strength, so keep betting even when the king hits. Alot of morons will stick around with the ace, but rarely with king high. You could also take the free showdown if you have a great read and think you're beat.