Interesting bot news

[Rah]

It seems like Party Poker have found new ways of cracking poker bots, even those running the "safe" dual computer setup.

WH forum thread 1 (http://www.winholdem.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=576)

WH forum thread 2 (http://www.winholdem.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=562)

Great news. Hopefully the upcoming bonus clearing week will be free of those bot using cheaters.

[sublime]

is that site, like a 2+2 of bpt users? wtf? im gonna troll those fcukers!

[GrannyMae]

rah,

will you please paste a couple of the posts here so we can see the gist of what you are telling us? i don't want to click on those links.

thanks much!

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/y/loveineye.gif

[rerazor]

Haha I cleared my IE history and cookies after I read it...it's basically just a warning letter to some kids from Party who detected them using Winholdem, nothing spectacular.

[Alobar]

I dunno, reading those threads didnt instill me with alot of confidence, looks like its pretty easy to set up a winning bot, and it looks like quite a few people are doing it without being detected. ugh

[ripped]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, reading those threads didnt instill me with alot of confidence, looks like its pretty easy to set up a winning bot, and it looks like quite a few people are doing it without being detected. ugh

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah I posted under "fishy" there and I was not all that impressed with how many are using it. Pisses me right off and with 200 registered to the forums that makes it even worse..how many are actually using it is anyones guess as I am sure they have a few hundred that dont post but use the bot.

[GrannyMae]

as I am sure they have a few hundred that dont post but use the bot.

the owner of the software is a scumbag jerkoff and i have no doubt that he is 150 of the 200 posters you see. maybe more.

[ripped]

I would love to know for sure but it does seem like there are quite a few bots on party sometimes. You can usually tell. I hope party has 0 tollerence on them and just closes the accounts..NO WARNINGS..they know what they are doing is wrong and doing it anyways.. Freeze the accounts and take their money.

[grouchie]

any time I feel like i'm playing against a bot, I usually send off an email letting them know what I think and why I think so.

Yesterday, sitting at a .50/1 game there was a very obvious bot.
The way i could really tell is that every 4-5 minutes on cue it would say "Cap it!!!"
no matter what was going on... didn't matter if it was a betting round or not, the damn thing was programed to say that as to throw people off to the fact that the computer was playing for the guy.

Rather pathetic.

[ripped]

glad you took the time to email party and let them know. The more people that get busted and more importantly the more people that get busted PUBLICALLY is great for the players playing a legit game.

[gaming_mouse]

Why are you guys worried about WinHoldem anyway?

I am pretty sure it is not a winning bot. Never tried it myself, but if it was really a winning program why would this guy be hocking it? He could just make money himself, no?

gm

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
The way i could really tell is that every 4-5 minutes on cue it would say "Cap it!!!"
no matter what was going on...

[/ QUOTE ]

Your bot detection skills could use some work.

[lefty rosen]

It wins for sure infact I think guys are beating the retard party 1/2 short games with it. A bot probably can beat a stupid 5/10 short game too........

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
any time I feel like i'm playing against a bot, I usually send off an email letting them know what I think and why I think so.

Yesterday, sitting at a .50/1 game there was a very obvious bot.
The way i could really tell is that every 4-5 minutes on cue it would say "Cap it!!!"
no matter what was going on... didn't matter if it was a betting round or not, the damn thing was programed to say that as to throw people off to the fact that the computer was playing for the guy.

Rather pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being sarcastic /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I really hope so.

[gaming_mouse]

Really??

I find that pretty hard to believe. How do you know this is true?

gm

[EliteNinja]

Obviously WinHoldem sux, if I were to write some kickass code that wins at poker, I'd keep it secret and rake in tons of money for myself.

[gaming_mouse]

That's what I'm saying. I just don't think WinHoldem is anything to worry about. If you worry about anything, worry about the guys on their own who PartyPoker can't detect.

gm

[Rah]

Granny,
It's the standard whining about being banned/warned, this time around the people have been using the dual computer setup, doing a push/pull thing which was supposed to be undetectable. Apparently Party has found a way to detect them.

[Rah]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you guys worried about WinHoldem anyway?

I am pretty sure it is not a winning bot. Never tried it myself, but if it was really a winning program why would this guy be hocking it? He could just make money himself, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously haven't checked out their forums. They have a botcode that is winning and actually beating PartyPoker for a few BB/hr. The bot wasn't winning at first, but a lot of people have been working on a formula for it which now is winning.
The good news is that Party are chasing them and banning accounts.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
You obviously haven't checked out their forums. They have a botcode that is winning and actually beating PartyPoker for a few BB/hr.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not being facetious at all, but how do you know those posts are real? It would make sense for the author to put them up to boost sales. Not saying that's necessarily true, but just asking why you think it isn't.

gm

[Rah]

It's a possibility of course, but on the other hand, there are a lot of discussions with a range of users, many different styles of writing represented.
There are reports from people failing to make money, as well as reports from people making money. I'd say that the probability that it's all a fake is very small.

[JunieB]

Question about Winholdem and Poker Tracker.....If a bunch of people are using the same bot code, wouldn't their Poker Tracker stats all be the same? So if I see VPIP=18, PFR=8, Avg Agg = 2.1 on 400 hands, either it's Winholdem or just another good player I want to avoid anyway? Does anyone know what stats Winholdem will converge to in the long run?

[Rah]

Since most of the people seem to make their own setup, it probably isn't likely. Plus, if they make nice bots, they'd probably have about the same stats as many 2+2ers.

[MycroftX]

is that the East Bridgewater Viking?

[pokerjo22]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not being facetious at all, but how do you know those posts are real? It would make sense for the author to put them up to boost sales. Not saying that's necessarily true, but just asking why you think it isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few months ago Ray Bonnet (the author of WinHoldem) consistently had 'conversations' with himself and 'customers' over on RGP. He wasn't very good at it, as it was obviously the same guy. I'm 99% certain that the posts over on their forums are legit. Like the other poster said, lots of different writing styles etc. From what I understand WinHoldem isn't a great piece of software and its a bitch to code. But its only a tool, designed to allow your code to interface with the poker site. A lot of the decisions at low limit holdem are so automatic that it would amaze me if people WEREN'T able to code those decisions to make a profitable bot.

[CountDuckula]

Site admin has replied to the criticism. I have replied with my own rebuttal (I'm "Wanderer"). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Mike

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a possibility of course, but on the other hand, there are a lot of discussions with a range of users, many different styles of writing represented.
There are reports from people failing to make money, as well as reports from people making money. I'd say that the probability that it's all a fake is very small.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rah,

Looking the posts over myself I agree with you.

JunieB,

There is no way those stats converge fast enough for you to have sufficient evidence you were playing against the same bot. Not to mention it sounds like different people make different adjustments to the AI. Unfortuneatly, PT is just not an effective counter-measure.

gm

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
they'd probably have about the same stats as many 2+2ers.

[/ QUOTE ]

so, in general, one could assume that the resident LAG is either a 2+2'er, or a bot? got it! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

cheers!