going down with the ship

[turnipmonster]

opponents are both really bad, button being extra extra terrible. who 3 bets the turn? who overcalls the river?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

[RunDownHouse]

I'm not at all worried about being behind to a boat on the turn. I'd raise SB, and if Button 3bet me I'd consider it. Easy fold on the river, espcially in that situation. Other than that, hard to say without reads other than opponents being really bad.

[jujujaja34]

turnipmonster,

Since the button didn't raise the flop, there's no reason to think he filled up on the turn. Easy raise. The river is an easy fold with the SB calling. If the SB folds the river I think it's close, but I probably fold as well.

jujujaja34

[Grisgra]

I'd 3-bet the turn, and . . . ugh. The river is grim. If I know that they're both Really Really bad, then I probably call for one bet. Otherwise it's an easy fold -- but you did say they were Really Really bad, meaning the SB could have just an ace, and the button could be going to town with something like AJ or 88 or something dumb. I mean, almost definitely not. But if they're Really Really Bad, I am loathe to fold a showdownable hand when I'm getting 10:1 odds. The call of the SB means squat in that situation.

But I could be convinced that a fold is good regardless. I think it's close. I definitely 3-bet the turn though.

[turnipmonster]

so of course I wouldn't have posted this if my opponents didn't split the pot with J2o.

I agree with the general consensus on 3 betting the turn, I think I made a bad play given the flop action. not 3 betting actually made me mistakenly fold later in the hand, so in this situation it cost me the 10BB pot. ugh. anyways, thanks for the replies!

--turnipmonster

[Grisgra]

It's extraordinarily hard to make judgments when you're talking about 10:1 pot odds, but I think that against Really Really bad players, you *probably* should call the river in situations like this, even if it's an overcall. I think that you always have 10:1 odds against Really Really Bad players with any showdownable hand.

Obviously, running the risk of being results-oriented here . . . as you said, you're not posting this unless you would have taken the pot.

[turnipmonster]

true, but if I had played the turn correctly I wouldn't be in the river situation to begin with /images/graemlins/smile.gif. later, the button passively called me down with top set.

--turnipmonster

[Alobar]

I 3 bet the turn here without even thinking about it. If he had two broadways preflop he likely would have raised, but even still with someone this horrible he could have Q3o or even just a jack or ten.

The river sucks!! I want to say call because they are both so horrible, but I think I would have folded too. If it wasnt overcalled tho I would have called. Sucks that they both showed a J

[jrobb83]

I used to fold this river, but I've seen so much crazy s--- recently at the Pary 6max games I now call (even overcall) more often in siutations like these. I've found myself being pleasantly surprised fairly often.

As others have said, I would 3-bet the turn without much consideration.

[turnipmonster]

they both showed specifically J2o, no less.

[Jeff W]

I don't understand your turn decision.

The flop makes sense.

I'd raise on the turn. If I hadn't raised the first time around, then I would 3-bet the button raise. You have the best hand here 9/10 times. I don't slowplay on paired boards.

The river depends on how bad they are and in what way. I suspect you have a call here against truly awful opponents. Button will bet many hands here, including the board and SB will call with as little as the board.

[Guy McSucker]

Lots of people are saying they'd 3-bet the turn. Do you mean that?

I would 2-bet it...

Guy.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of people are saying they'd 3-bet the turn. Do you mean that?

I would 2-bet it...

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, yeah I kinda missed the action on that. I would have definately raised the turn, but if I hadnt for some reason, I would have 3 bet the raise.

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of people are saying they'd 3-bet the turn. Do you mean that?

I would 2-bet it...

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly. no way i'm letting the button in on the cheap here. pot building = not a good idea in this spot....take it down if you can.

cheers!

[Guy McSucker]

So after a little break and self-evaluation period I decided to give the $5/10 -max another try.

Sat down. Posted the BB. Got dealt 5-4o and three limp in. I check.

Flop: 8-7-6 with a flush draw.

I bet, UTG raises, button cold-calls, I 3-bet, they call.

Turn: 8. I bet, UTG raises, button folds. I call.

River: 6. I check-fold.

Welcome back Dr McSucker /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Guy.

[naphand]

For some time now, I have begun to believe that I am just one of those people who does not get enough luck, or at least a fair share of it. It is true, I never seem to be able to win a big pot with flushes, always getting Rivered it seems, though I know I am playing them well. When I hit it almost always HU, and folded before SD. But, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat...

After having watched your game, and your "reports" I can now safely conclude I am nowhere near as unlucky as I could be. Guy you are on a f. awful run, and it saddens me to see just how pernicious it is for you. I say, go play some tourneys and develop some good NL skills. You should do fine there, keep coming back and trying but, to be honest, it is deep in your head right now and the exit seems to be blocked. Difficult to know what to say. Maybe you should have quit when you got up over 100 BB, like Kiddo says; take a few small wins. Perhaps you could find some small comfort in the fact that I have never had a winning session close to 100 BB yet. I always seem to have to grind everything out, which I am good at, but once in a while it would be nice to get a run of cards...

PM me if you want to meet up sometime. You are South Coast yes?

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Guy you are on a f. awful run, and it saddens me to see just how pernicious it is for you


[/ QUOTE ]

I really think my own play is the main factor now.


[ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should have quit when you got up over 100 BB, like Kiddo says; take a few small wins. Perhaps you could find some small comfort in the fact that I have never had a winning session close to 100 BB


[/ QUOTE ]

Neither have I. I think you must have misunderstood something I wrote somewhere.

Feel like I've hijacked this thread so I will disappear.

Guy.

[naphand]

In your "McSucker Returns" thread you said you were up 130 BB at one point... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I wondered where this post ended up, I thought it was there. I must have been in two minds, I blame the neighbours. OK that's enough.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

In your "McSucker Returns" thread you said you were up 130 BB at one point...


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh... yes, I was 130BB up for the game as a whole at one point in history, not at one point in my return session. I think it was about six weeks ago.

Trust me, if I get $1300 ahead in one session I will be going Christmas shopping.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Guy.

[BlueBear]

Must raise the turn straight away in my opinion. Call the river.