Question for the experts

[john222]

I've been reading the posts on here and have a question for all who seem to be doing so well playing poker online. In a 5-10 Limit HE game, mostly 10-handed (sometimes 8 or 9 for short periods), what is an AVERAGE # of hands a player should be winning if they are a winning player?

The reason I ask, I'm a fairly tight/agrgessive player who was winning consistently for a while, but for the past month or two it seems I can't win no matter what I do. The winning hand percentages for my last few sessions are 6%, 8%, 7%, 8%, 9%, 6%, 8%, 7% (avg 300 hands/session: 2428 hands total).

It seems to me that, if I'm playing only the hands that I should be playing, and the best I'm doing is taking down 6-9% of the total hands in a 10-handed game, then there is no way I could be winning. It seems that I'm just getting cards that aren't allowing me to win, no matter what I do.

Any thoughts/suggestions/am I missing something here?

Also, I read a recent post that said a monkey could make 20k/yr. playing poker on the internet. Well, I'm smarter than a monkey and I haven't figured out how to do this yet -- can you teach me?? (seriously!)

Thanks

[x2ski]

[ QUOTE ]
I read a recent post that said a monkey could make 20k/yr. playing poker on the internet. Well, I'm smarter than a monkey and I haven't figured out how to do this yet -- can you teach me?? (seriously!)

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep reading...

[Paluka]

You aren't trying to win pots. You are trying to win money.

[Cornell Fiji]

The fact that you have noticed that the stat is too low and the fact that you posted the question here means that there is hope for you as a poker player.

Most beginer poker players play way to many starting hands and end up losing all of their money. There are also some players who read a book that tells them how tight they should play and they rock up and don't play enough hands. It seems you are in column B.

I obviously can't tell you the biggest leaks in your game simply from the fact that you are not winning enough total hands.

I suspect that one of the biggest leaks might be that you have more or less the same starting requirements for all hands that you play and that you don't loosen up a little bit when you are in late position or when many players have limped into the pot before you.

Furthermore I would wager that you are not raising preflop nearly enough and then you are only betting the flop when you have hit TPGK (top pair good kicker) or better.

You are also probably a little bit to passive when you are in a hand, it is OK to bet and raise when you only have a piece of the flop or if you just have overs and it is ok to bet a river, especially when the board is something like J /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and all draws missed.

It also sounds like your play isn't advanced enough for 5/10 at this point. If I were you I would immediately switch down to 3/6 until you have shown a steady profit there. Keep reading twoplustwo and post any interesting hands that you play for commentary.

Lastly, and I think this is the most important of all of my advice, PURCHASE POKERTRACKER! I am sure that you have seen some posts about it in this forum but the program is a godsend for internet limit players. It gives you complete stats on your play and the play of your opponents. You will be able to look at your stats after winning sessions and losing sessions and see what the difference is and eventually you will learn how you should be playing. It is a great teacher and a great scout (you will know the opponents who can and cant be bluffed, you will know their starting requirements, and you will know their betting patterns and how they bet with each type of.) Also at 5/10 many of your opponents are already using PokerTracker and you are at a serious disadvantage.

I hope this advice helped a little bit.

-Steve

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
The winning hand percentages for my last few sessions are 6%, 8%, 7%, 8%, 9%, 6%, 8%, 7% (avg 300 hands/session: 2428 hands total).


[/ QUOTE ]
That looks so unbelievably typical. You must have been running really well for awhile. I find that over the long haul mine always ends up around 7%.

[MicroBob]

I'm usually around 7-7.5% as well.
8-10% is running pretty hot for me.

Let the others battle it out for the smaller pots with their crap hands.

If you wanted to increase this percentage you could just cap with every hand all the way to the river. You might get up to 15-20% with this...but you'd lose a ton of money.


If I have see-flop % of 21 or so...and I win 7% of the total number of hands dealt then I am winning 33% of the pots I am actually involved in.

So I'm losing 2 pots and winning 1 for every 3x I see the flop.
Since there are MULTIPLE players in each flop this is a GOOD thing.

I'm probably losing 2-3BB on each of the hands where I don't make it....and maybe winning 7-9BB on the hand that I do win.

Voila!! Houston, We Have Profit!!

Hope this makes sense.

Keep reading.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

read a recent post that said a monkey could make 20k/yr. playing poker on the internet.

There's an old saying that warns you not to believe everything you read. This statement proves that.

[Sarge85]

Nice Post Bob.

Very well articulated.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
The winning hand percentages for my last few sessions are 6%, 8%, 7%, 8%, 9%, 6%, 8%, 7% (avg 300 hands/session: 2428 hands total).


[/ QUOTE ]

hi,

i hope you realize that 3000 hands is hardly meaningful amount of data to tell any a story of any level of truth.

as for me, 8%-winning-hands usually spells a winning session for me. 7% is iffy, and 6% mostly indicate a below average session. all above is said with the assumption that you play selectively (tight).

Kenny

[adamstewart]

Good Respose.

However, from the sounds of the original post, I would suggest the original poster move down to $0.5/$1 to start out.

Original Poster, please don't take offence to this, but it does not sound like you are ready to beat the $5/$10 and$3/$6 games yet. Start low and move up slowly, as you are ready.

It is important to remember that online games are tremendously tougher than their live B&M counterparts. $5/$10 at the local casino plays a lot like $1/$2 online.

Just my thoughts...

Adam

[Grisgra]

I was the one who made that comment -- and it wasn't a monkey, it was a chimp. A retarded chimp, if I recall correctly /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

If you've broke even over the last 2500 hands . . . well, welcome to poker. But if you're a 1BB/100 winner on average at 5/10 full (not a high win rate) and you played 2 tables 30hrs/week, then you'd be making about $12/hr, 30hrs a week.

$360/week, or about $19,000 a year. So there you are /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Ekeing out $10-$15/hr online isn't hard if you multitable, even if you aren't a sterling player. But it does sound like you've got a ways to go if you are complaining about being a winner player, but now breaking even over the last 2500 hands. 2500 hands is nothin'.

[dana33]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that, if I'm playing only the hands that I should be playing, and the best I'm doing is taking down 6-9% of the total hands in a 10-handed game, then there is no way I could be winning.

[/ QUOTE ]
Where do you get this idea? You will win the most pots if you play every hand and never fold. If you do this in a 10-handed game, you will win roughly 10% of the pots over the long term. But you don't want to do this! You want to play only those hands that have a good chance of being winners, not 72o hoping for a flop of 772. (As another poster said, you want to win the most money you can, not the most pots you can.)

I would think that any winning player at 10-handed small stakes limit MUST have a winning percentage significantly less than 10% of dealt hands. (If you play with weak-tight rocks who routinely fold to bluffs, then in principle it could be higher. But this is far from typical for small stakes.)

[haakee]

7% is pretty typical for a winning player in a full ring game.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I read a recent post that said a monkey could make 20k/yr. playing poker on the internet. Well, I'm smarter than a monkey and I haven't figured out how to do this yet -- can you teach me?? (seriously!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Buy a monkey.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I read a recent post that said a monkey could make 20k/yr. playing poker on the internet. Well, I'm smarter than a monkey and I haven't figured out how to do this yet -- can you teach me?? (seriously!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Buy a monkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

Better yet, buy ten /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[john222]

That's some great advice -- thanks a lot. Also, I didn't realize so many people were using poker tracker and that it is so helpful. I'll be buying it today -- thanks!

[john222]

Makes sense -- thanks. It didn't occur to me that the player at the table winning the highest % of hands is also most likely the player losing the highest % of hands.

[Fudomyo]

I have watched this number for a long time. Afterall it seems like it should be important some how.

If you really pay attention to the pot size, you'll start noticing that you might make money at 4%, you hit a few big pots. Break even or lose at 10%, cause you got good cards, but noone was in with you.

Won$SD is probably a better number as far as how you are running. Still doesn't mean you won a thing however.