Last one I promise... HU w/ bottom pair out of position

[JrJordan]

Only played three hands with this guy so far, so no read to say the least. Table just broke up so 3 handed for this before I left. I'm really struggling with my HU play, especially when out of position. I keep getting this urge that they're always trying to bluff me out so I end up 3-betting with A-high hands and such, most of the time I'm shown a middle/top pair called to the river. So I'm trying to be a bit more passive because people don't like to fold as I've seen so far. Anyway, to the hand.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

[Alobar]

I'm folding the turn here. You've flopped bottom pair so if hes playing back at you with a made hand, its likely to be better than yours. But if he was also just playing back at you with the OESD, it got there on the turn. If he does just have like 96o you still dont have the odds to see the river with your 5 outter.

[JrJordan]

Thanks for the quick response Alobar. Just curious though, if the turn is a rag do you still call a turn bet from him? If he checks through the turn would you bet out on the river if there is another rag?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the quick response Alobar. Just curious though, if the turn is a rag do you still call a turn bet from him? If he checks through the turn would you bet out on the river if there is another rag?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the turn card didnt complete the straight, it would be a hard decision for me. I would prolly call, and then fold the river if he bet again and I didn't catch. Because a river bet is more likely to be a real hand as I think the OESD gives up. But I suck in these spots so I dunno if thats sound advice

I wouldnt bet the river if he checks through the turn, because if he calls you (which he will do with any made hand) you are most likely going to lose. He may also check behind a few hands that you can't beat (54o, etc). If he checks the turn and a blank falls on the river and he bets tho, I'm going to call.

[Rizen]

I agree, I fold the turn here. If the turn wasn't a card that completed the OESD I'd consider calling down, but at a new table with no reads I probably give up on the turn either way, as there are going to be a lot of cards you don't want to see on the river with this holding either.

-Rizen

[helpmeout]

Dont raise preflop, A3 sucks, you are out of position and it makes it harder for you to get him to fold the flop because of the extra investment.

The rest is ok, really need a read in this situation to determine the best play.

[Nikla]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont raise preflop, A3 sucks, you are out of position and it makes it harder for you to get him to fold the flop because of the extra investment.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you're joking. An ace headsup is a monster. I'd raise any king and pretty much all queens from the smallblind.

[Rubeskies]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont raise preflop, A3 sucks, you are out of position and it makes it harder for you to get him to fold the flop because of the extra investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, you are aware that it's head up right? A3 vs a random hand is a very profitable situation, especially when you probably play better postflop then your opponent.

[helpmeout]

I'd rather limp with this and easily win a pot when both of us miss than have a guy bluff raise me because he puts me on an Ace(since I raised preflop) and the flop is rags.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather limp with this and easily win a pot when both of us miss than have a guy bluff raise me because he puts me on an Ace(since I raised preflop) and the flop is rags.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think he is bluff raising, then play back at him or just call him down and take it with your ace high. Not raising this preflop is giving up on lots of EV

[helpmeout]

You dont know if he is bluff raising that is the problem. My point is that if you invest an extra bet then the pot becomes larger so he wont give up easily.

When you hit an ace and raised preflop he will dump his bottom pair so you dont get paid off when you hit.

Against an opponent who isnt overly loose preflop then of course you raise because he will fold a lot. But against typically loose opponents who will call with anything I prefer to call.

[piocet]

I think you are giving BB too much credit here. His flop raise doesn't mean anything to me. HU any pair is a good hand. I probably bet out on turn, fold to a raise. If BB calls, I check fold river.

Well, from the way this hand is posted, I guess my line would cost 1 extra big bet compared to your play.

[JrJordan]

I'm pretty sure raising any A from the SB is a +EV move. The problem right now is that my HU skills are weak at best. All too often I find myself open raising AK from the SB, getting checkraised on the flop when I miss, and folding on the turn. Obviously it becomes easier to call down when I hit some sort of pair on the board, but how can I make my missed AK +EV? How often is it worth calling down with high cards vs. an aggressive BB who has position?

[Alobar]

so what kind of hand does it actually take for you to raise preflop? Do you just call with AK for the same reasons you just gave? I think you fear being bluff raised to much. sure ithappens HU in blind battles, but not as often as I think you think it does. Most of the time when I raise Ax in the SB and they call, I bet the flop and they fold.