Right Decision?

Last night in Pokerstars $22 buy in PL holdem we were at the final table. I had approximately 5500 in chips (micro stack). Picked up AJh utg and raised all-in. All folded to SB who called with 4/5o. I lost, but results do not matter. He had approximately 35K. His call was right wasn't it?


sorry-blinds were 1k-2k I think.

> His call was right wasn't it?


Only if he could have been almost certain that the BB would fold (e.g. very tight player in survival mode with an uncomfortable stack around 10k who knows that a call would commit him) or check it down, no matter what (I've seen ppl. check down twopair or better in this situation), in which case, he is correct to call for 2:1 (or 3:1 resp.).


In your position, he would expect you to move in with more than 1/3 your hands, so he wouldn't be much worse than a 3:2 dog and for a big stack, the prospect to eliminate a player is well worth the risk to make a marginal, but still +EV play.


cu


Ignatius

Well, I wouldn't call there. If the big blind has any kind of stack and reraises, I must fold and I just pissed away 4.5K, a good 15% of my stack. Even if I know the big blind is folding, I'm risking 4.5K to win 8.5K. This is no better than an even money gamble over the range of hands you ought to be holding. It's true that I'm only a 3:2 dog to AK and other unpaired overcards, but I'm almost a 5:1 dog to an overpair, which you will have a significant fraction of the time. You will almost never have 22 or 33 where I'm almost even. Overall, this is probably a fair gamble, but not a good one. Since it's late in the tourney, the only reason to take a fair gamble for a sizable piece of my stack is if I consider myself a below-average player, in which case a fair gamble is better than I'm usually going to get.


But what if you know the big blind will call with a lot of hands, AND will tend not to bet unless it's clear he has a big hand? Well, hot-and-cold my hand is about a 3:1 dog to win, and I'm getting just about 3:1 on the call (4.5K to win 12K). Again, a fair gamble, but no better. The only way I should call here is if the big blind is known to check it down against an all-in, yet will also call much too loosely if I make a good hand and bet it, giving me strong implied odds. This situation is pretty rare IME.


He should've folded.


But, the big blind should've called with anything. He's paying 3.5K to win 8.5K, and doesn't have any worries about a third player mucking things up. He also figures to be about a 2:1 dog or less against your range of hands (no matter what he's holding), but he's getting paid about 5:2, a significant overlay.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

I personally disagree with his call. The additional $4,500 for him to call when he almost certainly knows that at worst you've got two over cards in my opinion is not very wise. I don't really believe in Expected Value when it comes down to final tables. Having just gone through the blinds, I would muck the 4/5o, and look forward to using my chips to my advantage by raising the smaller stacks. Unless I think I am a favorite or I can develop some kind of advantage after the flop I wont use my chips to call.


Mathematically it may be correct to do what he did, and as large a part as it plays, Math is not the most important part of Tournament Poker, Winning Is.


Just my opinion

"Mathematically it may be correct to do what he did, and as large a part as it plays, Math is not the most important part of Tournament Poker, Winning Is. "


U said this Martin. Dont u all want to win, thats why theyre in the trny. The Math could actually be used to win the trny...

Mathematics will rarely win you a tournament in and of itself. Just like good card reading skills, courage, getting good cards, and all of the other skills that go into playing quality "Tournament Poker" in and of themselves do not and can not win you a tournament. It is the right combination of all required skills that makes a winner out of a loser. The mere decisions to compete in tournaments may satisfy the requirements for wanting to win. However, having the desire will get you nowhere, having the will to do that which is necessary to make yourself a winner is what matters. Understanding the math behind the cards is a very important part of Poker.


Because of the fact that you cannot "Pull more chips out of your pocket" if you bust in a tournament, you have to understand the part of Tournament Poker that math plays. It should be used as a guide for you to determine the chances you have mathematically, along with the psychological advantages you have, to be able to rip the heart out of your opponent.