50 FUKING MILLION??? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 12:00 PM

from Espn.com:
"If I'm playing in left, that means we're a pretty good ballclub," Sexson said. "We'd have a pretty good first baseman."

Seattle is still negotiating with free agent first baseman Carlos Delgado and third baseman Adrian Beltre, two of the most attractive hitters on the market.

okay, well, looks like we are probably getting someone else. I wouldn't be surprised if its Delgado.

sthief09

12-16-2004, 12:15 PM

what is overpaid about Sexson? he got hurt last year. erase last year and he's a steal

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 12:20 PM

huh? explain, please. he is a career .271 hitter. He has power, but nearly 15 mill a year is excessive. The contract is back loaded, so the M's don't have to worry to much this year, but IMO Sexton is probably(at his peak) probably a 11-12 mill a year guy.

Paluka

12-16-2004, 12:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
huh? explain, please. he is a career .271 hitter. He has power, but nearly 15 mill a year is excessive. The contract is back loaded, so the M's don't have to worry to much this year, but IMO Sexton is probably(at his peak) probably a 11-12 mill a year guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this contract is actually fine assuming Sexson will not have lingering effects from his injury. Hitters like him often peak later in their careers, and most of the projection gurus out there pegged him for a huge year last year. I really think Sexson has potential to be Jim Thome Lite.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 12:28 PM

well to be honest with you, nearly every obsessive M's fan out here disagrees. IMO, as long as he is healthy, it will be fine. The guy is freaking gigantic too.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 12:36 PM

You don't pay somebody 14 million dollars to play in the decline of their career. I like Sexon, but not at the rate or the length of contract that they gave him.

That the M's would spend on a player like Sexon, and wouldn't pony up for Alex...

This team is making me hate baseball.

If we get Beltre, MAYBE I'll be happy- but sheesh- this is horrible.

btw- this is my 2000th post. WOOT- or something.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 12:42 PM

I don't think we will get Beltre, I am thinking it will probably be Delgado.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 12:44 PM

Delgado would be horrible. Again- paying a lot for a player in his decline phase when you may be able to get comperable production from Jacobsen.

It's easy to find 1Bs that can hit- overplaying for an old one is suicide.

There's a lot of rumors that Beltre may be close to signing.

btw- M's fans would to well to check out USS Mariner (http://www.ussmariner.com) great sight for M's writing.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 12:49 PM

yeah I have been all over that site lately.

Well, depending on how much Delgado cost's would affect my decision.

I was really hoping we were going to get Beltre and Delgado, but I think I can deal with Sexson, again, if he is healthy, this guy could be a monster.

As for Bucky producing the same as Delgado, LMAO, who knows, Bucky really has no track record in the majors, so last year could have been a total fluke, but I think he will get his chance this year. If they sign Delgado and Bucky is on the team, Big Buck will be exclusively the DH as Delgado has said in public he does not, nor will he play DH, so don't worry to much, I guess.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 12:57 PM

It's not so much that Bucky = Delgado, but that Bucky might give you much better value on the dollar. Don't overspend for positions that you can find comperable quality cheaper, and spend the money in spots (pitching, Beltre) where there's less easily available talent.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 01:05 PM

yeah, I agree with that approach. A couple weeks ago, I said on here, do not spend a lot of money at first, because there are so many players that can be comparable at first, but finding a money 2B, SS, or 3B is key. Its a lot like drafting in Fantasy baseball. I always try to get the best 2B, SS, and 3B first, then a power pitcher. There are so many OF and 1B of comparable skill out there, that wasting a pick on one of the better players is a waste. Think about how much the offensive production drops from the top 5 SS to the rest of the SS in the league. Its pretty enormous.

Demana

12-16-2004, 01:23 PM

Beltre, whose numbers are suspect, is not worth the money Boras wants for him. He's hit 20+ homers twice, that includes last years 48 home run abberation. At some point, Mariners management needs to realize that they need to develop some major league talent instead of over paying for guys not worth the money.

btw - They offerred Alex 19 million a year for 3 years (what he asked for) and he blew them off for the Texas.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 01:31 PM

Beltre's numbers last year was what everyone had been waiting for from him though. I don't know if he can keep that up, but I think suspect is a bit of a stretch.

As for them developing players, they really don't have any, or atleast really none ready. You have to remember, most of their good players were traded away in the late 90's.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 01:32 PM

I know what they offered Alex, and it was a low ball insulting offer. They knew he wanted a much longer contract than they offered. It wasn't a legit offer, just a PR move.

Alex is a once in a life time, may grow up to be the best player ever player. You sell your soul to get him. Just MO.

I don't think Beltre is suspect at all. He's the one player who has a chance to get better through the life of his contract. Much better investment that Delago or Sexon, who are much more likely to get worse.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 01:46 PM

READ!!!!!!! (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002121200_mari16.html)

citanul

12-16-2004, 02:26 PM

i think the Os are too interested in Delgado to think it's a lock that you'll see him in seattle.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 02:40 PM

Finningan is a clown of the highest order. Don't believe him. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 02:41 PM

well, a lot of sources have been saying the Beltre deal is close.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 02:45 PM

Yeah- that's what I was saying. I just trust what I heard on as USSM more than Finnigan /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Patrick del Poker Grande

12-16-2004, 02:49 PM

Is this the same guy who used to play for the Brewers who got pulled toward the end of the season a few years ago so that he didn't break the record for most strikeouts in a season?

Well at least you've got that going for you.

nolanfan34

12-16-2004, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the same guy who used to play for the Brewers who got pulled toward the end of the season a few years ago so that he didn't break the record for most strikeouts in a season?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was Jose Hernandez. But, his name is similar to Sexson's, so I can see why you'd get confused.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 02:52 PM

Patrick del Poker Grande

12-16-2004, 03:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this the same guy who used to play for the Brewers who got pulled toward the end of the season a few years ago so that he didn't break the record for most strikeouts in a season?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was Jose Hernandez. But, his name is similar to Sexson's, so I can see why you'd get confused.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or maybe it's because Sexson was neck-and-neck with Hernandez the whole way. Yes, Hernandez finished with 185 strikeouts, but Sexson was only 7 behind him with 178 in the 2001 season. Hernandez did up the ante in 2002 though, swinging through 188(!) times to Sexson's disappointing 136, but Richie regained his stride with 151(!) in 2003 (only to be outdone again by Hernandez's 177 - this guy's amazing).

Either way, you've got one helluva strikeout artist for $50M.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 03:05 PM

There is nothing wrong with a strikeout- it's just another out and it's not a GIDP.

I think we overpaid, but I like Sexson a lot. He's a high quality three true outcomers (walk, HR, K) guy.

Demana

12-16-2004, 03:11 PM

I keep hearing about the Beltre deal being done and it would shore up the infield defense. But Beltre is as likely to be Scott Spezio as he is Scott Rolen at the plate.

We'll see where this goes...

wayabvpar

12-16-2004, 03:14 PM

If they land Beltre, I can live with overpaying Sexson (at least until his shoulder explodes and the shards kill Ichiro). I would have rather seen Delgado and Beltre, or (pipe dream) Beltran and Beltre. I don't see the logic in signing Delgado now- they have Bucky Jacobsen making almost 42x LESS than Sexson who can play 1b, DH, hit .270-.300, hit 30+ HRs, and strike out a lot (but not nearly as much as Sexson). Why add another first baseman/DH? That is just asinine.

Hopefully they are using their alleged pursuit of Delgado to pressure Beltre into signing sooner.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 03:19 PM

yeah hopefully, I think Beltre is coming though. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 03:19 PM

great post. You never disapoint.

nolanfan34

12-16-2004, 03:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hernandez did up the ante in 2002 though, swinging through 188(!) times to Sexson's disappointing 136,

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 2002 is the year I was thinking of. Forgot that Sexson got so close to him in those other years.

I agree with Dids though, if he hits 40 HR's I'm fine with it. Reggie Jackson struck out a ton but he seemed to do OK.

As for Beltre - comparing him to Speizio is crazy. This guy is going to be a star, and I hope it's in Seattle.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 03:52 PM

K's are over emphasized IMO. HR's have much more meaning than a lot of K's, as long as he walks enough.

And Beltre is def a star in the making. It looks like he finally found his swing last year.

Patrick del Poker Grande

12-16-2004, 06:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing wrong with a strikeout- it's just another out and it's not a GIDP.

[/ QUOTE ]
A strikeout doesn't put the ball in play and it gives no opportunity to advance any runners without stealing. The only thing a strikeout has over a ground out is that you can't get a double play off a strikeout.

I'm a small ball kind of guy - I hate all these idiots swinging for the fence all the damn time. I'll take some good manufactured runs over some lame homerun any day.

VBM

12-16-2004, 06:16 PM

i don't get why everyone is so down on Sexson. 40/120/.271 is better than what we had & everyone says he's gotta pretty good glove. yes, he's right-handed, but when you hit 500ft home runs, i don't think it matters much...

personally, i think beltre is a bigger gamble. he's only done it for 1 year and he's coming to a deadball park...

DonWaade

12-16-2004, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well, its looks like we got another big goofy looking white guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least we dont have Sam Cassell.

wayabvpar

12-16-2004, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well, its looks like we got another big goofy looking white guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least we dont have Sam Cassell.

[/ QUOTE ]
Have you ever seen Sam Cassell and this guy in the same room? I doubt it....

http://skepdic.com/graphics/alien.gif

B Dids

12-16-2004, 06:48 PM

You've basically just said "I like middle pair more than a boat".

Small ball sucks.

"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."

"Get some big cocksuckers that can hit the phucking ball out of the ballpark and you can't make any gawd-damned mistakes." -- Earl Weaver

Oski

12-16-2004, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
personally, i think beltre is a bigger gamble. he's only done it for 1 year and he's coming to a deadball park...

[/ QUOTE ]

... from THE deadball park.

Patrick del Poker Grande

12-16-2004, 07:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You've basically just said "I like middle pair more than a boat".

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're going to put it in poker terms, which is really not very accurate at all, it's more like I'm saying I like a draw to a big/huge hand instead of a pocket pair. There's nothing better than a big inning of hit after hit, as opposed to a couple long fly balls. Whooptee doo - a home run. It's not even exciting anymore. If that's what you want, go watch batting practice or the home run derby.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You've basically just said "I like middle pair more than a boat".

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're going to put it in poker terms, which is really not very accurate at all, it's more like I'm saying I like a draw to a big/huge hand instead of a pocket pair. There's nothing better than a big inning of hit after hit, as opposed to a couple long fly balls. Whooptee doo - a home run. It's not even exciting anymore. If that's what you want, go watch batting practice or the home run derby.

[/ QUOTE ] you are wrong.

Basically you are doing what I was doing 6 months ago, which is basically argue in support of a style and system of baseball which simply won't work in todays game. SLG and OBP are the most important stats now, and you aren't going to have a high SLG by hitting singles.

VBM

12-16-2004, 07:20 PM

OK, fine...but beltre's best year b4 last year was 24/80/.240

...you may have seen him closer; has he turned some corner or something?

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 07:24 PM

looks like he walked more last year. His first couple years he had about the same amount of walks, and his average was .275+ for those two seasons. Then his walks decreased and so did his BA. Perhaps he is being more patient at the plate, which would be nice.

B Dids

12-16-2004, 07:25 PM

Nice- TSC has seen the light.

Patrick del Poker Grande

12-16-2004, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You've basically just said "I like middle pair more than a boat".

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're going to put it in poker terms, which is really not very accurate at all, it's more like I'm saying I like a draw to a big/huge hand instead of a pocket pair. There's nothing better than a big inning of hit after hit, as opposed to a couple long fly balls. Whooptee doo - a home run. It's not even exciting anymore. If that's what you want, go watch batting practice or the home run derby.

[/ QUOTE ] you are wrong.

Basically you are doing what I was doing 6 months ago, which is basically argue in support of a style and system of baseball which simply won't work in todays game. SLG and OBP are the most important stats now, and you aren't going to have a high SLG by hitting singles.

[/ QUOTE ]
That can be argued. All I'm saying is I prefer to watch and am more excited by a small ball kind of game. I'd rather there actually be some play going on instead of a home run derby where you just watch the ball go out of the park and trot around the bases. Doubles and triples are much more exciting and every at bat is infinitely better with runners in scoring position. I didn't say I wouldn't want some home run threats on my team if I were trying to win a championship. That's also not to say I don't enjoy a good home run every once in a while. I'm just sick of seeing EVERYBODY swinging for the fences and I think the homerun has lost a lot of the excitement that it used to have. It's no big deal anymore when someone hits a homer.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 07:33 PM

oh fo shizzle my nizzle, you have to find a balance, IMO. I think thats why Boston was able to win this year. They had a nice balance of that small ball and money ball(note: stress the money ball more so). The M's in 2001, as well as the Yankees team from the late 90's all really fit that mold as well.

Also, I agree with you, lots of hits is far more exciting than a couple walks and a HR, but you might as well get use to it. Actually, I don't have a problem with it at all, but thats because I simply love baseball.

ThaSaltCracka

12-16-2004, 07:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nice- TSC has seen the light.

[/ QUOTE ]It was bound to happen. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Schaefer

12-16-2004, 08:09 PM

I love it so much.

Sexson is only 29. I don't know who said he's in the decline of his career. They did a ridiculously extensive physical on him and the shoulder is great. He's just getting into his prime. Oh baby.

A lot of Beltre's power is to the opposite field, which is great for Safeco. He hit 48 playing at Chavez Ravine for god's sake. He's 25! and a gold glove quality 3rd baseman. He tore it up in the second half of 2 seasons and finally put it all together last year. I am so giddy right now. I'm buying a Beltre jersey as soon as they figure out his number. Boone, #29 and Beltre, #29.

Schaefer