Playing AK well one of the keys to SNG's

[zephyr]

I always thought that I played big slick fairly well, but after playing my 80 sngs yesterday, and running into AK ~50 times, I realized something...I suck at playing AK in the first three rounds. In round 4+ its pretty simple because its typically just push preflop. I honestly think that a good player can become a great player by learning to play AK well.

On that note, I want to hear what you guys and gals have to say on the topic. What are the strategic concepts that you consider when playing AK early on? How do you typically play it preflop? What about when the flop missed? etc. etc.

Zephyr

[raptor517]

i limp call a raise with it. period. i do not become the agressor in the early rounds. there is no reason to be. super tight, even passive seems the way to go until the blinds hit level 3. when the blinds hit 25-50, ill make it 150 to go, if i get 1 caller, bet about 225 on the flop, and check it down if he calls. i try not to invest too many chips on it. for the most part, if i get a lot of action on it preflop, and i miss, i check fold. no reason to invest your chips on a drawing hand when u can use your late game blind stealing skills to mass your chips.

[fiyah]

Early stages I'll raise 3 times the BB with AK and if flop misses than I bail, no point in risking your chips early levels unless you have the best of it. The tricky situation is when you hit TPTK and someone raises to 200 at level 1 or level 2, do you call this or push? Does that person have two pair or a set? I normally play the $33 SNGs and I would just smooth call this and see how they react on the turn, after the turn though its fold or push.

[zephyr]

So two different opinions. What do others think, raise preflop, or limp? What about if there's a standard raise infront of you, call or reraise, or fold? What if there's a raise and reraise?

I know these don't have definite answers. Just trying to get some thought going.

Zephyr

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
i limp call a raise with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do that.

I'll make my standard raise with it (either 50 or 75 in L1 depending on the SNG, 100 in L2, etc.) but the way I play it on the flop has a lot to do with the number of callers and the texture of the flop.

1 caller is an autobet unless the flop is JT9 clubs and I have spades. 2 and over and it becomes trickier. I've posted a hand where I had 3, checked the rag flop, hit an ace on the turn and folded to a raise in front of me. I haven't posted a few where I've bet the flop and the turn into 2-3 callers and was right and a lot more where I've checked through and was wrong.

Meh. Online reads are underrated.

[hurlyburly]

Why wouldn't you use the same ratio concept in the early rounds that you are using in lvl4+? At lvl4 you have to be making a pretty big overbet and only getting called from hands that have you beat or racing, which isn't any different if you play that way in lvl1-3.

If I get AK in late position or the blinds I raise it 3-8xBB (depending on suitedness). EP-MP is 2-4xBB depending on the tightness I've seen so far. I am never afraid to push or call all-in whenever I can get action.

If Kxx flops, I'm a little more cautious with it but still aggressive. If Axx flops I'm trying to trap a weaker Ace. If the board is draw heavy or I'm not the one instigating the big action, it's check/fold on the turn or river. If the flop misses but has 9-Q, I will check/fold most of the time. If there are 3 spread cards below 9, it's worth a 1/2 pot bet for me to see where I stand.

I like AK better than I should, but my history with it is good. I find it much easier to play than JJ-KK. I honestly prefer to get AK over TT-QQ.

[captZEEbo1]

Yeah, I'm some weak-tight problems too with AK. Here is a sample of some early round AK's I got yesterday. I couldn't find some of the folds I made with AK in the first round, but basically it was like utg 15 to 30, call, call, call, MP makes it 100 to go, I just fold right there.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t570)
SB (t440)
BB (t2133)
UTG (t775)
UTG+1 (t1010)
MP1 (t760)
Hero (t1570)
CO (t742)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t111</font>, CO folds, Button calls t111, SB calls t96, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Flop: (t393) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, Button calls t150, SB folds.

Turn: (t693) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t309</font>, Button calls t309 (All-In).

River: (t1311) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1311
(lost to flush QJs)

__________________________________________

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t845)
MP2 (t1525)
MP3 (t770)
CO (t920)
Button (t755)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
Hero (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t50</font>, UTG+1 calls t50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t50, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t175) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: t275
_____________________________________
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t690)
SB (t938)
BB (t935)
UTG (t220)
UTG+1 (t1285)
MP1 (t775)
Hero (t1293)
MP3 (t1064)
CO (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls t90.

Flop: (t345) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t100</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t445
_____________________________________
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t460)
Button (t1210)
SB (t1435)
BB (t790)
UTG (t710)
UTG+1 (t290)
Hero (t775)
MP2 (t920)
MP3 (t1410)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t60, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t375</font>, SB folds, BB folds, Hero folds, MP3 calls t315.

Flop: (t835) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets t835</font>, Button calls t835 (All-In).

Turn: (t2505) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2505) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2505
(KK got rocked by 44)
_________________________________________

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t705)
SB (t735)
BB (t670)
Hero (t790)
UTG+1 (t795)
MP1 (t600)
MP2 (t685)
MP3 (t2265)
CO (t755)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t40</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t40, MP2 calls t40, MP3 calls t40, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t185) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t15</font>, MP3 calls t15, Hero folds, MP1 calls t15.

Turn: (t230) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets t85</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: t315

[adanthar]

Hand 1: Your flop bet sucks. Either go all in or check/fold. If you had no diamond I'd like checking more. Yes, they're both short and you are pot committed if you bet bigger, but unless one of them has a T you're ahead. Being pot committed is also why you go all in; a small pair will not often call that and since they're short this is a fine time to represent aces.

Hand 2: Fine but I'd make it 125.

Hand 3: With 800 chips I would just call PF.

Hand 4: Good fold.

Hand 5: What the hell? Raise more and certainly don't fold to the flop minbet...but mostly, raise more. A lot more.

[EnderFFX]

In the first 3 rounds, I typically raise very strong with it. I'll go 5x-10x depending on the players, and how many people have limped in. If there is a raise, it becomes more player dependant. I'm not afraid to get all of my chips in with AK.

I think that is mainly because I play the $15 Speed SnG on PStars. You can't believe how many times I have pushed in and have had AQ follow me in.

[Benholio]

This is how I play AK early in a SNG.

If the pot is raised, I will either cold call the raise (if I feel it will be heads up or 3 ways) or reraise, depending on position / no. of players. If I miss the flop when someone else had raised, and they bet the flop, I will usually give it to them. This is a great situation for implied odds though, as the PF raiser will almost always come out firing, and will often double you up if you flop an ace or king.

If the pot is unraised, I come in for a standard raise (which is 3-4x or so the BB, depending on the level).

If I hit the flop and it is coordinated, I make a pot sized bet. Uncoordinated flop will sometimes bet less than pot size.

If I miss the flop heads up, I bet about 90% of the time, in position or not.

If I miss the flop multiway, I bet sometimes depending on position, the flop, and how many players. Rarely do I bet with more than 3 players in the pot.


AKo usually accounts for most of my chips won in the first few levels, and usually it is about 4th-5th place in bb/hand after AA KK QQ AKs/JJ.

[Big Limpin']

Zephyr, ive learned so much from your posts. Because of that, i suspect our thought processes are somewhat similar. As such, likely much of my dissertaion here wont be groundbreaking to YOU, but hopefully at least one other reader will take something from what follows:

(And guys, please call me out on anything you disagree with, im not perfect, and would benifit/learn from your criticism)

In a given hand, AK is probably the best pockets dealt. And you have it. This is good. Seeing as you likely have the best of it, its natural to want to immeaditely exploit this and raise it up. I doubt this is a bad play. You are certatinly posEV on the hand. But the likely result is:

A) you take the pot without seeing a flop (you win a miniscule pot from one of the best hands you will get all tourney)

B) you are called by one, or possibly 2 passive guys. On the majority of flops, whether the flop hit you hard/a bit/miss, you are going to fire a meaningful sized bet at the pot (at least, i hope you all would). You more often than not will see their hands fly into the muck. BUT, sometimes they have hit a hand, and play back (or even smooth call you). These pots, our AK may/may not be the best hand in play. If you missed the flop, you're done with the hand, and have lost your p/f raise and flop bet. But, if the flop contained an A or K, you are unlikely to get away from the hand and i'd give even money on your chances with TPTK. Remember, you were aggressor, and they havent gone away, even though the flop had an ace/king on it. *Mental warning bell goes off.

So, id say preflop raising the AK, while posEV, is going to either win a small pot, or put you to tricky decisions in big pots. YOu will probably win your share of these big, early level pots, especially if you get action from a dominated ace or king that you both pair. Possible double up. Or, you can go broke/lose a chunk of your stack pretty easy, running into flops that give you TPTK vs their 2 pair/set/flush draw/flopped str8/str8 draw


(Intermission...halfway done what i want to say...pause for digestion)

OK, now the case for limping an AK/AKs in the early levels, especially from EP/MP.

From right off the top, i said AK was probably the best hand dealt. Small/Mid pairs wont be coinflips, as we are WAY too early to be seeing many preflop all-ins, and they are NOT going to be seeing 4th or 5th street without flopping a set. SO, AK is assumed to be best.

But, if hero chooses not to immeadiately jump on his percieved posEV situation, and just limps along, he can see the flop for the minimum of fees, and then chooses to exploit only those flops where he has more concrete idea of weather he is the favorite to be best hand at showdown.

THe flop will only pair you up like 1 time in 3, plus all the times you have 2 overcard broadway gutshot type hands, but still, over half the time you will have missed the flop. Guess what? its a 7 card game, and it doesnt look like our AK is so big and mighty anymore. check/fold flop. YOur done with it. you gonna get fancy, and make some brilliant outplaying manoevers&gt; hells no, you are into the pot for like 50 bucks, give or take. You get away from it with neglegible loss.

BUT, if the flop does hit you, you can now play from a cash-game strategy, agressive, exploiting posEV situation, building pots, killing draw odds, etc. Sure, you're going to lose some of these pots. SInce you limped, you might get a few more sets flopped against you. and a freak low 2 pair from the BB always hurts. But for the most part, you are only investing large chunks of your stack with much the best of it.

To recall my views on playing AK string preflop:
YOu win tiny pot, or are somewhat better than even money postflop. ON average, over thousands of AK hands. OVerall, positive chipEV, but there large degree of risk w.r.t loosing stack. And its early levels, we just want to survive to bubble time.

But, for playing AK passively preflop...you give up any chancce of picking up blinds (which are busfare-sized early anyways), and you will be folding over half of the time on the flop. But, the times you do stick in your money, you will be the favortive more often, and a bigger favorite, cause you are picking you spots, and dont have the pressure to maintain pre-flop aggression. THe pot is smaller, cause no preflop raise, so you dont need to try to pick up the pots that all of you missed either, they are still too small. Check/fold AK down to the showdown, you still gonna win if he missed and wont bluff you. (i love typing "AK! nut No-Pair!" into chat).

So, you put your money in less often, but with a better chance of winning. THus, passive preflop gives you.....

SLIGHTLY LESS CHIP_EV, SIGNIFICANTLY LESS RISK

This is why i love SnGs. The dynamics of a ever-escalating blind structure, and exponential payouts. It seems to be the unanimous opinion of this forum that the early levels are the time for watching others kick the sh*t out of each other, and only getting involved when you are the clear favorite. Personally, i am of the opinion that the hand that is most most benificial of this type of play is AK for Levels 1,2 and 3.


Thanks for slogging it throught all that, i know my posts are too long. PLease respond with opinions / critique / modifications / advice / questions

[Bigwig]

Early rounds:

If nobody has raised preflop (ie, limpers, or folds) then I will make my standard raise (3 or 4 BB's + limpers). If I get reraised, I may actually fold preflop. Depends on where I raised from, if there were limpers, where the reraise is coming from, etc.

My flop action depends on how many callers. With three callers, I'm done with the hand unless I hit. With two, I'll lead out a 2/3 bet if rags come and it's checked to me. With one, it's an autobet, regardless of the flop.

With somebody raising in front of me, I take note of their position. If the raise is from EP, I'll just call. MP or later, I'll throw a raise back.

In later rounds, at a short table, I assume I'm ahead of players most of the time and will raise/call all-ins with AK frequently. I'll use the same standards for post flop play as well, often pushing a rag flop vs. one opponent.

[Voltron87]

I have gone through a bunch of different AK moods in the last month. Now I have started only limping, to disguise the strength of my hand and outkick someone with top pair, or pushing with it early. I used to think pushing was horrible, so many 5050s for all the chips, but I have gotten so many amazing races against AJ and A10 (even at the 33s people will call all in with AJ, even A10) that pushing can be a good move. I have given up raised 3 or 4 BB, this only invests too much in a 30% chance to hit. Plus if you miss and have 100 or so in a decent pot you are tempted to steal, which kills you long run in SNGS.

[sofere]

Interesting logic...my main concern though is that limping AK gives you absolutely no information and it might make it even harder to get away from TPTK when you're up against 2 pair.

Not only will the big blind be able to chance that freak low 2-pair and someone hitting a set, but I'd be afraid of getting destroyed by Ax, Kx two pair. Maybe its just because I don't trust myself to drop TPTK when the time comes, but that's why i don't like limping AK.

[Gramps]

I like what stripsqueez says - AK in the early rounds is a "drawing hand." Of course, I might be biased because the first tourney book I ever read was T.J.'s where he advocates the same type of thinking.

Maybe it's value is greater at the buy-ins where people are willing to go to war for all their chips with top pair/less than top kicker. I find the hands I double up on early tend to be the big pairs, or other pairs that flop a set. AK is nice the 1/3 times you hit, but I'm usually not lucky enough to get more than a few hundred chips in reward.

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting logic...my main concern though is that limping AK gives you absolutely no information and it might make it even harder to get away from TPTK when you're up against 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Very true. But remember, on A/K flops, you are probably only worried about 2 pair being 2nd/3nd button pairs right? And these hands are coming from the blinds, most likely, so if they show strength early, you dont have to play, even if you are TPTK. And if you open on the flop for a good bet and they blind check/called...well, as i said before, alarm bells should go off. You can take your free card on the turn, or the river, but you should be able to avoid building a big pot, as you have position on him.

Im more worried about freak 2 pair hands when i slowplay my AA, cause then the flop has THREE cards for him to pair, not two.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be afraid of getting destroyed by Ax, Kx two pair. Probably me just playing scared, but that's why i don't like limping AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stars have to align for this one. You must be dominating preflop AND the flop needs one of the 2 remaining cards of the rank AND it needs one of his 3 outs. YOu can't win em all, sometimes sh*t happens. You are killing this guys KT with your AK. Dont sweat it if he gets the best of you once or twice per blue moon.

And TY for the reponse

[TheDrone]

I disagree with some of your logic and assumptions. You are disregarding the implied odds you are giving to other limpers when you limp AK, and you effectively turn one of the more profitable early level hands into 72o when you miss 2 out of 3 times because there are typically 4 or more players seeing the flop.

Also, the difference in pot size is not all that much, but the fact that it's an unraised pot makes a big difference. Take a full table scenario with 15/30 blinds and you have AK in EP. On average a 3BB raise is going to give you 1 or 2 callers this early on, so lets say the button and BB call for a pot of 195. If you just limp, it's common to get 3 or 4 callers, so lets say it's MP, button, SB and BB. Now the pot is 150 and two of the callers could be playing almost any two.

[ QUOTE ]
But, if hero chooses not to immeadiately jump on his percieved posEV situation, and just limps along, he can see the flop for the minimum of fees, and then chooses to exploit only those flops where he has more concrete idea of weather he is the favorite to be best hand at showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
When you do hit top pair, you will lose a good chunk of your stack to a better hand MORE often than if you were against 1 or 2 players in a raised pot. Suggesting that you have a better idea of when you are ahead in a multiway unraised pot is just flat-out wrong.

[Voltron87]

I agree with your strategy BL. Limping with AK throws even usually solid players totally off guard and you can win some big pots because of your kicker. The problem with raising is you miss most of the time and stealing when you miss in SNGs is -EV.


Small two pair will sometimes kill you, (or a set), but this will happen from time to time. When you hit AK you will have the best of it the vast majority of the time.

[stripsqueez]

early in a SNG you should be avoiding risky positions such as multiway pots - AK is garbage early unless it hits the flop - i bluff a lot when i miss the flop but when i say "a lot" i mean in the context that i rarely bluff in the first 2-3 rounds of a SNG

you should definately raise pre-flop unless there is no sensible prospect of significantly reducing the number of runners

the flop you win with the vast majority of the time you play AK is 1 pair - 1 pair isnt a strong hand so you need to get rid of those playing hands that are targetted to more than 1 pair (if they dont fold then you have to make sure they pay enough that they are making a significant mistake) or you take too much risk

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: Fine but I'd make it 125.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really get people cold-calling when you make it 8.3BB to go from UTG?

[adanthar]

I meant the flop /images/graemlins/smile.gif I make it 75 PF.

[raptor517]

the reason i limp call a raise is because in the first 2 rounds i dont want to invest any money preflop on a drawing hand. i want to see the flop as cheaply as possible with ak until the later rounds. u make your standard raise, get called, bet out the flop, get raised, then what? ive found over the course of my online career that not raising ak early might actually be a good thing. i think you give up way too many chips raising and betting out because of the kinds of hands that will call that raise. raise it, hit it, its easy to play. raise it, miss it, u lose chips, way too many.

[Bigwig]

Frankly, I think anyone limping with AK in an unraised pot is nuts. At a 9 handed table, you've got the best hand preflop over 60% of the time. I don't give a s*** if the stacks are 200 blinds deep. You must raise. In EP, MP, LP, or the damn SB.

[raptor517]

i guess im nuts then, but i could give half a spit about the first 2 rounds, you dont win the tournament there, you only lose it.

[Strollen]

I do a hybrid strategy I limp in early position and do a 3x raise in late or middle position. It seems me that so many pots in Level 1 or 2 at Party get raised that you are often better off letting somebody else do the raising early.

Still I don't think always limping AK makes a lot of sense.
If I am in late position and the pot is 75 with 4 callers including both blinds the flop is J86 rainbow, it is checked to my a bet of 60-75 generally won't take down the pot because some blind with a 6 5 or 7 5 will stick around. If I raise 45 preflop and I have two callers and my pot size bet of 150 will almost alway get every body without a Jack or 9-10 to fold.

[Sluss]

I really treat AK as a drawing hand early. I always judge my raises in the early levels on how tight the table is. If I think that I'll only get calls with dominated hands I'll raise. If some one behind me is going to call me with any two, I'll probably just limp and bet out if the flop hits me over the head. There is no reason to risk chips in the early stages of an SNG. You don't need to risk your whole tourney on "one of the best hands you'll see."

Remember the best hand only has to be better than the other guy's in the hand.

[zephyr]

Clearly you have put a lot of thought into this post, and are well on your way to becoming a thinking/learning poker player. I have to disagree with a fair amount of your post however.

I personally will always raise with AK, and it will take a tremendous amount of convincing to make me do otherwise.

[ QUOTE ]
So, id say preflop raising the AK, while posEV, is going to either win a small pot, or put you to tricky decisions in big pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that AK wins a medium sized pot a fair amount of the time.

Example: Level 2, raise preflop to t100, two callers. Flop comes rags, you bet and take down a t300 pot.

or, Level 2, raise preflop to t100, two callers, flop come Kxx, you bet and take down a t300 pot.

In both of these examples you increase your stack by around t200 chips. That's a 25% increase in a party sng, which is far from meaningless.

With regards to the big pots being "tricky", I think that depends a lot on a players experience. A good player will be able to tell if his TPTK is good based on the texture of the flop, actions of the players, and level he's playing at. For me, at the 10's I would be willing to back TPTK with my whole stack almost everytime. At the higher levels, it becomes much more dependant on the action of the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
and just limps along...and then chooses to exploit only those flops where he has more concrete idea of whether he is the favorite to be best hand at showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what type of flops you are refering to here. The only flops I can think of that the hero would be more confident with after alowing several limpers to see a flop cheap would be a two-pair or better flop. Flopping two pair or better simply doesn't happen enough, and when it does, I don't see how you're going to trap your opponent any better. Now if you flop TPTK the play of the hand becomes "trickier" as you are likely up against more opponents who are capable of holding anything.

With AK, I'd like to be up against hands that are more likely to call a preflop raise. For example, smaller aces. Conversly, I don't want to be up against hands that are likely to fold to a preflop raise, ie. small suited cards.

[ QUOTE ]
SLIGHTLY LESS CHIP_EV, SIGNIFICANTLY LESS RISK

[/ QUOTE ]

By not limiting the field with a raise preflop, I think that you actually increase your risk postflop. Put simply, the smaller the field postflop, the smaller the risk.

Only my opinion,

Zephyr

[ricochet420]

Excellent post man. I actually read the whole dam thing. I'd have to say my opinion is that of play it strong without overplaying it. yeah yeah, I know.

Brings to mind the problem I seem to have when I slow play...either AK or AA or whatever. With TPTK, TTP, even a set from time to time. I seem to lose to a flush, or str8 more times than not. I wish I could think of some examples, but my skin doesn't have traditional HH's.

[Big Limpin']

I'm a big fan of super/system. People rag it sometimes as outdated, but thats mostly just in reference to blind structure, as far as i can see.

One of the biggest nuggets that stuck in my head was Mr. Brunson's observation that flops where you have an overpair, give THREE board cards for opponents to make a hand from (str8s and 2 pairs), while the flops your AK pairs give them TWO board cards to work with (unless flop is all broadway). As far as 2 small pair goes, i think 3 vs 2 board cards is gives 4/9ths (???) the likelyhood of hitting em both. And as i said in a previous response, Them pairing the same pair as you AND their lower kicker, is just straight up a freak hand. You remember them casue they hurt, but they happen damn rarely.


The other thing is that, because the pot was UNRAISED, it is much easier to sniff out a small 2-pair, cause aggression is coming from a position you dont expect it. WHen the pot is small, nobody is trying to bluff it. If your get check/called by a blind...you shut it down unless your have a strong read he is on the draw.

So yes, not raising WILL allow more people to see the flop and perhaps make a small 2-pair, but you should have less problem discerning when your TPTK is not the best.

(this is of course all just my opinions, both this reply and all previous post on the AK subject, but i seem to be doing better than most with them in early rounds. My style works for me, others may prefer their own methods)

[captZEEbo1]

Even though the flop bet was only 15 in that hand, I really don't like drawing for AK overcards. I feel a decent part of the time my A outs aren't good (ie lose to two pair). It's just destined to lose more chips. the K out might be live.

I think I'm playing them too weak (folding to the 15 bet) with that many people in the pot, because before, I used open-raise allin strategy, and kept losing to hands like 99, 66, K3, and of course JJ, QQ, KK, AA. Ocassionally I get a call by AQ, but not as often as I was hoping for that strategy. I mean that's results oriented thinking, but I don't really like AK in early tournaments for some reason.

[tigerite]

I don't understand all this raising to more than 3BB malarkey just because it's AK. Surely this gives away information about your hand. Just make it a standard raise whether at level 1 or 6, so people have no idea if you have AK, AA, KK, QQ or JJ. But as for whether to raise first in? Every time. Just that much more if there's limpers. Re-raising is a different animal. It doesn't only depend on your position, and the position of the raiser, but on how loose they've been playing, too.