AA, what'd I do wrong?

OK, here's the pocket AA hand where a guy was happy to call my large "all in" bet for almost all his chips, when he had a baby pair and a straight draw, and ONE CARD to come!! Should I have played it differently?


Note. Reason for pre flop limp with AA (which I almost never do in NL), this table had been going wild with limp, limp, limp ALL IN pattern, by one player buying pots. That's what I was looking for.


Should I have made the move on flop and settled for peanuts?


PokerStars Game #16551546: Tournament #3118, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) -

2002/07/19 - 00:09:59 (EST)

Table '3118 5' Seat #6 is the button

Seat 1: baaadbeet (1470 in chips)

Seat 2: brocklanders (1310 in chips)

Seat 3: EggBall (1680 in chips)

Seat 4: pokotaurus (1590 in chips)

Seat 5: Big Kat (1370 in chips)

Seat 6: Sevyn AM (2950 in chips)

Seat 7: freeman (1660 in chips)

Seat 9: dummy25 (1500 in chips)

freeman: posts small blind 10

dummy25: posts big blind 20

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to baaadbeet [As Ac]

baaadbeet: calls 20

brocklanders: folds

EggBall: folds

pokotaurus: folds

Big Kat: calls 20

Sevyn AM: folds

freeman: calls 10

dummy25: checks

*** FLOP *** [2c 7h 4h]

freeman: checks

dummy25: checks

baaadbeet: bets 120

Big Kat: folds

freeman: calls 120

dummy25: folds

*** TURN *** [2c 7h 4h] [6d]

freeman: checks

baaadbeet: bets 1330 and is all-in

freeman: calls 1330

*** RIVER *** [2c 7h 4h 6d] [8c]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

freeman: shows [6h 5s] (a straight, Four to Eight)

baaadbeet: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)

freeman collected 2980 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 2980 | Rake 0

Board [2c 7h 4h 6d 8c]

Seat 1: baaadbeet showed [As Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces

Seat 2: brocklanders folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 3: EggBall folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 4: pokotaurus folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 5: Big Kat folded on the Flop

Seat 6: Sevyn AM (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 7: freeman (small blind) showed [6h 5s] and won (2980) with a straight, Four to

Eight

Seat 9: dummy25 (big blind) folded on the Flop

unfortunately, these are the kind of risks you take when you choose to slow play AA. you ask what you did wrong? obviously, your first mistake was not raising pre-flop, especially being UTG. not a good position to choose to slow play that hand. second mistake was moving all-in on the turn. when the SB called your $120 flop bet, you must have realized he was drawing at something. definitely bet the turn to avoid giving up the free card, but in my opinion an all-in move here is much too aggressive, especially with some of these online players who don't think twice about calling with the open-ended straight and flush draws. he had 13 outs with which to call your all-in bet once he made a pair, so i'm sure he didn't even hesitate to call here. i think the bottom line is, you simply cannot slow play AA. it is such a valuable pre-flop hand, why would you want to devalue it by playing it slow? if others choose to draw against it, make them pay dearly to do so. sometimes you must resign yourself to not making alot of money with AA. it can win big sometimes...but it can lose big just as often if not played correctly.

I don't think going all-in on the turn is such a bad play. At this point, you want to make any drawing hand fold or make a terrible call. It turned out that it was the best decision he could have made given the circumstances on the turn. Anyway, if his opponent has hit 2 pair, trips or str8 on the turn - you are probably going to have to call an all in bet anyway unless you can lay down AA.

> obviously, your first mistake was not raising pre-flop, especially being UTG


When you choose to go for a limp-reraise, then UTG is the best position to try it (highest number of potential raisers). Still I agree that, unless there was a good chance that someone would make an unreasonably high raise out of the blue, he should have bet out, b/c with a stack of 70 BBs it will take at least 3 (reasonably sized) bets to get your stack in. (With 15 BBs, limp-reraising can be a valid option if the conditions are right)


> an all-in move here is much too aggressive, especially with some of these online players who don't think twice about calling


What's wrong with being called for all your chips when you are a 7:3 (or - in the case of a standard draw - 4:1) favorite?


In fact, when playing agaist draws, getting your money in on turn is the single best thing that can happen to you. Zero implied odds for your opponent and maximum EV for yourself with only one card to come.


cu


Ignatius

I did the exact same thing you did, but it was in a b and m tournament. Never again! You must raise, even if it's only double the big blind. Don't ever give a poor player or a weak handed blind the opportunity to get lucky on the flop! Good Luck!

ignatius, i agree that AA was still a heavy favorite here considering the holding of SB. i just feel the way the had was played pre-flop and the 4 cards sitting on the board when they got to the turn, AA couldn't have been too happy. just because you are sure you are ahead doesn't mean you shove your whole stack in the middle and hope for the best. it's easy to talk about odds and who is the underdog, but this is a tournament. if you shove your whole stack in there and lose, you're done. maybe i'm wrong, but if i'm holding a slow-played AA and looking at a board of 4578, i'm dumping to any substantial size bet.

> just because you are sure you are ahead doesn't mean you shove your whole stack in the middle and hope for the best.


Well, just being ahead is certainly not enough, but if you can routinely double your stack with less than a 30% risk of going broke, then you're certainly are a much better player than I am. (e.g. first hand in the tourney, you have KK in the BB, all fold to the SB who flashes ATo and moves in. Would you really fold here?)


> if i'm holding a slow-played AA and looking at a board of 4578, i'm dumping to any substantial size bet.


Sure, but here your main fear is a six and not T9 or 32.


cu


Ignatius

I think you need to go back to basics. Don't do any trapping or anything tricky for awhile. If you have a limping hand and the situation is OK, limp in. If you have a raising hand, raise the pot. In fact, every time you have a situation where you feel a bet or raise is correct, bet or raise the pot. Don't worry about giving them implied odds, or anything else. Just make that your standard for awhile.


The only exceptions should be if the pot-sized bet or raise will use up 1/3 to 1/2 of your stack or more, in which case go all-in instead.


Try this for awhile without doing ANY trapping or anything else. See how it goes. You might find that you're trapping yourself too often, and this method will eliminate that. Then, once you get comfortable and confident again, you can start getting tricky.


Also, I'm not saying to never steal or bluff. Choose your spots carefully, and decide before you make the first bluff if you're going to follow through on the next betting round or not, or at least decide on what kinds of flops/turns/rivers you'll follow through, and with which you won't.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

As I digest all the good comments and advise, I find yours is a good summation of the direction I may need to go for awhile. I was doing very well in tourneys, but in reviewing HH's I see a recent tendency to shoft too far in the direction of "trappage" and "tricky" play the past couple weeks.


Back to the concious effort toward solid tight aggressive for awhile, but I do think it is very important to mix up play now and then when table condiitons warrant it.


In the few NL Pstars tourneys and satellites I have played (just started the past few weeks otehr than the original "big" freeroll of 800+ players), I notice a tendency on the part of quite a few players to make an overaggressive "all in" move on the pot quite frequently with pure bluffs, draws, and marginal pairs. Giving away your hand pre flop usually discourages that play. Now and then it's nice to trap these plays when you can double up.


I like to double up early if I can with AA or KK (or QQ), if possible, when there is little "buy in" at stake. It gives you some "breathing room" to look for a wide variety of other profitable opportunities as the rounds progress, which you can't exploit without an above par stack.


But for now, back to reassess that big pair betting strategy!