Stealing Blinds - Comparing Stats

[El Maximo]

My ROI has greatly improved since I ramped up my aggression when shorthanded. Just wanted to compare stealing blinds stats with some other players. These are all from 250 of the $10s and I dont have enough $20s logged to really do a fair comparison.

Results from Pokertrack (all hands between 4-6 players)
All of these are my steal attempt stats when in SB or Button and it has been folded to me.

SB
Steal Attempted 48%
BB Folded 74%
Won when called 48%
BB won per steal attempt 0.13BB

Button
Steal Attempted 27%
Blinds folded 70%
Won when called 48%
BB won per steal attempt 0.34BB

My steal attempts have gone up over the last 125 games and the number of times Im called has dropped. Probably alot of variance in these numbers but thought it might be interesting to compare.

[rachelwxm]

[ QUOTE ]

SB
Steal Attempted 48%
BB Folded 74%
Won when called 48%
BB won per steal attempt 0.13BB

Button
Steal Attempted 27%
Blinds folded 70%
Won when called 48%
BB won per steal attempt 0.34BB


[/ QUOTE ]

This is something interesting, if you push 48% of hands from sb and bb call top 26% of hands, how could you win 48% of time if called? I think the number should be a lot less, isn't it? Same thing for button. Is it just because the sample size or I miss something? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

One possible exlaination is that your opponent's calling standard is shaky. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Irieguy]

If your hot and cold understanding is much better than your opponents', your 48% push hands may very well match up well with your opponents' 26% call hands.

For example, if you include K-5s but exclude J-8 from your steal requirements, while all of your oppoenents are calling with J-10o as part of their "top 26%," you can see some skewed results. That may be what's happening. Of course, it's still more likely that it's all just statistical noise.

Irieguy

[El Maximo]

I think its a little of both. Over 250 sngs I only played a little over 1000 hands short-handed (4-6 people). This is also from the 10s. I have found that the party 10s overvalue certain hands like QTo, JTo, KTo, KJo. I get called alot by these types of hands when pushing. What is interesting is from my first 125 sngs to my last 125 sngs I have increased my aggression. My SB push increased by 9% and Button push increased by 5% but my won flops when called stayed at 48% for both. Again this may be nothing more than variance over a small sample size.

[rachelwxm]

It would be much clear if you compute standard deviation or confidence bound for those numbers so that you can skip those numbers that is not statistical significant.

[El Maximo]

I just pulled them out of pokertracker. Was more interested in how they compare to other players. I would have no clue how to compute standard deviation for those numbers. I have enough trouble getting my $5 Kmart calculator to work.

[rachelwxm]

Yet you can beat those games can't you! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I have never use pokertracker that much after some initial frustration. But I never realized that you can pull up these useful info from that. Maybe it's time to upload the handhistory again. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[El Maximo]

I dont know how useful this info is. Was curious to see how I compare to others. Am I over aggressive or too passive. I just use the hand filters in the tournament dbase under in the known starting hand area. You can create some good filters in this section.

[UncleRemus]

Interesting stuff, never played with those filters... Glad I am now..

Stats for December, (~400 tournies, and an atrocious 6% ROI)

SB
Steal Attempted 50%
BB Folded 71%
Won when called 51%
BB won per steal attempt 0.14BB

Button
Steal Attempted 33%
Blinds folded 68%
Won when called 51%
BB won per steal attempt 0.26BB


Gonna keep playing with this, hopefully I can pinpoint what it is, exactly, that's holding me down as of late. Out of curiousity, what is your overall BB/Hand 4-6 handed?

[El Maximo]

My overall BB won per hand is .02 . Interesting that our steal stats are fairly close. I know Im missing some button stealing opportunities. I hope to get this number up in the near future. Looking at all my steals the biggest leak I have is pushing weak hands into big and or small stacks. Ive made some really awful pushes into desperate small stacks and aggressive big stacks.

[UncleRemus]

One thing that I'm finding very helpful is using that new playerview program. Too often I'm lacking a decent read, and I'm finding just looking at a few of a players numbers 35-40 hands in can really make a boarderline decision much easier.

My overall BB/Hand is 0.00 for this stretch, and what's weird is even going through all this stuff I'm still having a difficult time figuring out why. Every individual thing I look at (my steals, defending my blinds, W$SD) all seem to look decent enough, but the big picture isn't reflecting it. Gonna keep looking...

[El Maximo]

Ive been using Playerview also. Been experimenting with some of the stats to get Playerview to work with SnG play. Im using the color codes to label PFR% and VP$IP. By the time I hit Level 4-5 I usually have some indication of how tight/loose and passive/aggressive they are. I think Playerview helps. Im also taking a look at Att to steal Blinds and defend blind stats but found these to be less helpful. I think you can use PFR,VP$IP, and stack size to get a rough indication of what range of hands they will call you with.

[UncleRemus]

Agreed. I was using folded BB to steal, and att to steal blinds, but without a TON of hands on someone, they're not too useful. VPIP and PFR can definitely give you pretty good information on someone halfway through the tournament. I also throw in average postflop aggression and went to showdown...not sure how much those are helping me thus far, but I'm going to leave them in for a while before I make up my mind. All in all, a great tool, even for SNG's.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
My ROI has greatly improved since I ramped up my aggression when shorthanded. Just wanted to compare stealing blinds stats with some other players. These are all from 250 of the $10s and I dont have enough $20s logged to really do a fair comparison.

Results from Pokertrack (all hands between 4-6 players)
All of these are my steal attempt stats when in SB or Button and it has been folded to me.

SB
Steal Attempted 48%
BB Folded 74%
Won when called 48%
BB won per steal attempt 0.13BB

Button
Steal Attempted 27%
Blinds folded 70%
Won when called 48%
BB won per steal attempt 0.34BB

My steal attempts have gone up over the last 125 games and the number of times Im called has dropped. Probably alot of variance in these numbers but thought it might be interesting to compare.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you get attempted steal to come up by position? When I filter by position, it only changes the known hands, which don't include a steal attempt stat.

[El Maximo]

Filter by the SB or Button.
Filter again by Chance to Steal and Raise/folded/called

This will give you steal attempts.

Filter Chance to Steal and Raised and Went to Showdown and Folded Before the Flop

This will give you and idea of how often your steals are called and how often you win them when called.

[Vetstadium]

I have greatly increased my stealing in my last 100 SNG's have noticed an increase in my first place finishes. My question is when do you start stealing? I usually don't star to blinds are 50-100 my reasoning is I do not want to let on I am stealing when blinds are insignificant.

[El Maximo]

Yeah, this is when I start stealing blinds. I find a 3x BB raise at Level 3 doesnt do much. You will get called alot of times. The only times I will steal at level 3 is if Im desperately short stacked. Than even T75 chips is worth stealing.