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Elbie

12-14-2004, 10:22 AM

UTG+2 is reasonable and had shown some aggression earlier. Rest of the table loose passive.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 caps, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (20.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB calls $0.50 (All-In), UTG calls, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (18.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (30.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 33.75 BB

JoshuaD

12-14-2004, 10:43 AM

I'm inclined to cap this on all 4 streets. Looks like UTG+1 has got TT, JJ, QQ, or KK. Not sure about all the ride-alongs, but it looks like you're good here.

If you think UTG+2 will cap this flop with 99, then you should slow down, but I bet it's TT or JJ.

DMBFan23

12-14-2004, 10:55 AM

those cold callers are sweeeeeeet....

that river was actually a great card for you. I am suspecting KK for our compadre, and perhaps jack ten or 99 for one of the goons, but this looks good.

Nick Royale

12-14-2004, 10:55 AM

<blockquote>Svar till:<hr />
If you think UTG+2 will cap this flop with 99, then you should slow down, but I bet it's TT or JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a reasonable player ever 3-bet the turn with TT or JJ. I think he has KK or AA. But I agree, cap the turn and see what happens at the river. If UTG+2 leads I'll raise, but won't cap (but as you said, it's all about what UTG+2 is able to cap preflop with, I might only call the river bet). And what the heck is MP1 calling with? I assume it's a drawing hand until he's starting raising.

JoshuaD

12-14-2004, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a reasonable player ever 3-bet the turn with TT or JJ. I think he has KK or AA. But I agree, cap the turn and see what happens at the river. If UTG+2 leads I'll raise, but won't cap (but as you said, it's all about what UTG+2 is able to cap preflop with, I might only call the river bet).

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that depends on how "reasonable" he is. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif I could definitely see a decent player keep pushing with TT or JJ here.

[ QUOTE ]
And what the heck is MP1 calling with? I assume it's a drawing hand until he's starting raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP1 never raised, it's probably a weak pair, like A9. But the way he played it, it could be anything of a plethora of weak hands.

Elbie

12-14-2004, 11:21 AM

I really didn´t have a clue about the UTG+2 preflop capping standards. In the about 3 orbits I´d been at this table he had seemed reasonable with some postflop aggression.

The coldcallers are sweet.....yes...but also dangerous. My impression of them being loose and passive, they could be on a draw but also one of them could have a made straight, letting me and UTG+2 make all the betting for them.

I was caught between two thought-processes here:

- I´m too weak letting go of the aggression by not capping the turn. I´m probably ahead of UTG+2´s KK, QQ.

- I should have slowed down earlier and started calling
down on the turn having seen the flop 3-bet and the
many passive cold-callers.

Elbie

12-14-2004, 11:42 AM

Maybe this is one of the situations where there is no default action /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Nick Royale

12-14-2004, 11:50 AM

<blockquote>Svar till:<hr />
The coldcallers are sweet.....yes...but also dangerous. My impression of them being loose and passive

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the callers are creepy, especially if they're passive. But if they're also loose they are more likely to be playing draws or maybe weak pairs. With 3 players along you only need 25% equity to cap and as long the callers shows no agression I'm confident you have.

Nick Royale

12-14-2004, 11:59 AM

A tip for the next hand you post is to cut the hand where you are faced with the decision. (at this time at the turn) The river action should not influence the turn play.

droolie

12-14-2004, 12:01 PM

What range of hands do you put UTG+2 on when he 3-bets pf? If he's reasonable he has 1010-AA or possibly AKs. You have AA you should cap thispf . Not capping is really bad IMO because you have three other players willing to put dead money in the pot. Take their money before the flop misses them!!!

I probably cap the flop as there's no chance UTG+2 has 10J and it's very unlikely he has 99, 88 or 77. No body else showed strength either. All the idiots who called pf are still there though which means they have some hop on this very draw rich flop. Make them pay to try to draw out on you. That board is scary and all of them no doubt have odds to draw. Any 5,6,7,8,9,10,J are bad turn cards. You might convince me that waiting for a blank on the turn to push this hand is better given the board and the fact that nobody is going to fold to a flop cap. That being said the turn and river are dream cards for you. UTg+2 with his big pocket pair is practically colluding with you to take the callers money. Turn and river are easy caps.

I don't think you were thinking very hard about what you were trying to do. From my read you were at least tied with anything UTG+2 probably has. Push back hard against him and get paid off by everybody. If he has one of the unlikely hands that beat you, oh well, you won't lose a very high % of the time in situations like this. Go with your read and live with the results. This could have easily been a 48BB pot with you as the likely winner. If one of the callers "wakes up" you're in trouble but sonce that didn't happen I think YHIG.

Nick Royale

12-14-2004, 12:17 PM

<blockquote>Svar till:<hr />
What range of hands do you put UTG+2 on when he 3-bets pf? If he's reasonable he has 1010-AA or possibly AKs. You have AA you should cap thispf . Not capping is really bad IMO because you have three other players willing to put dead money in the pot. Take their money before the flop misses them!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Utg+2 caps preflop, making it hard for hero to do so. Other then that I'm with you. You have equity to raise and cap as long as you have 2 callers along.

droolie

12-14-2004, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What range of hands do you put UTG+2 on when he 3-bets pf? If he's reasonable he has 1010-AA or possibly AKs. You have AA you should cap thispf . Not capping is really bad IMO because you have three other players willing to put dead money in the pot. Take their money before the flop misses them!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Utg+2 caps preflop, making it hard for hero to do so. Other then that I'm with you. You have equity to raise and cap as long as you have 2 callers along.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops. I better make sure the helmet I'm wearing is properly attached.

Elbie

12-14-2004, 01:55 PM

I think that I "chickened out" by not continuing the aggression. Everything that has been said about the likelyhood that I have UTG+2 beaten and that the turn and rivercards couldn´t have improved the coldcallers drawing hands is true.

However; I have to re-eveluate my reading of UTG+2 being decent (preflop) as he showed pocket 7s for the full house.
MP1 had 98 for unimproved two pairs on the flop and my hand was second best.