Step #1 Tourney - AKo vs Chip Leader

[El Maximo]

This hand gave me some trouble. This is a Step#1 Tourney and top 4 move on. Chip Leader has been a bully but hasnt come over the top with a reraise very often. Mainly he calls the raise and get aggressive on the flop. I would normally autocall this against this type of opponent. Do I take a different line with these step tourneys when the top spots move on and thier is no prize money distribution?


NL Hold'em Trny:7873774 Level:6 Blinds (75/150) - Monday, December 13, 20:01:05 EDT 2004
Table 1st Step 2-Table(168832) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 3: dmk4y ( $2115 )
Seat 4: sengledow ( $3165 )
Seat 10: El_Maximo ( $1960 )
Seat 1: martinbudge ( $8310 )
Seat 5: KG4_MVP ( $1675 )
Seat 6: mark83vt ( $1810 )
Seat 7: lilpenny ( $965 )
Trny:7873774 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to El_Maximo [ Kc Ah ]
KG4_MVP folds.
mark83vt folds.
lilpenny folds.
El_Maximo raises [450].
martinbudge raises [4900].
dmk4y folds.
sengledow folds.
>You have options at 1st Step 2-Table(168895) Table #1 Table!.
El_Maximo ??

[Michael C.]

I think I'd muck it and wait for a better spot. You only have to beat three other players, so why put your life at risk when there's a good chance he has some kind of pair. There's a huge difference between raising blinds and re-raising, so barring any other info, I'd guess he has something.

[ChrisV]

Can't call fast enough. It's very unlikely he has a hand you're in bad shape against and the pot is laying you great odds. The raise to 4900 also looks like a scare tactic. There's no reason to raise that large so I assume he's just doing it for effect.

[Michael C.]

Chris- I don't think odds apply in this case. All that matters is making the top 4 in STEP, as 4 and 1 pay the same. In an $11 tourney, there's a good chance it'll be down to 5 players if you just do nothing. I figure right not you're 50-50 or better to advance doing nothing, so why risk getting knocked out? Notice he said the chip leader hasn't come over the top too often. What would his reason be for raising here with nothing when he's likely to be called? If he plays no hands the rest of the tournament he's 100% to advance to the next step. I know if I were the chip leader here there's no way I'd go over the top without a hand better than AK. Because he has 0 to gain in this spot.

[Benholio]

I agree with Chris here, this is an easy call.

[ QUOTE ]
figure right not you're 50-50 or better to advance doing nothing, so why risk getting knocked out?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see where you get this. You can't fold your way in with 1500 chips. You are going to have to win some chips to get in from this point, and what better hand are you waiting for to try and do it?

[Michael C.]

Maybe you guys are right, since I haven't played that many STEPS yet. I just know that I'd much rather raise all in another spot than to call all in vs. the chip leader. Again, put yourself in the chip leader's spot. Why would you re-raise in this spot if you didn't have a hand. Doesn't he have a lot more to lose than to gain? If I were him I'd raise a lot in unraised pots but I would be very careful in raised pots. And can't he clearly walk home in this spot? So why would he raise without the goods?

[Benholio]

If you were the big stack, perhaps you would only push back with AA or KK... You can't give the random low-buyin player credit for making the same moves you would though. I can see the big stack pushing back with more than just AA or KK here, and if that is the case, AA and KK become less likely since you hold one each.

[SuitedSixes]

Easy call. My read is, this is a bully being a bully. Especially in a STEP tournament where being chip leader allows you to make these kinds of moves. You're going to have to make a stand, at some point, and this is a perfect hand. My guess is, you're up against A-X or K-X. Call it, double up, press "Post Blind and Fold" and move on to Step 2.

[Rezvani]

More to lose than gain?
What does he have to lose? If every player called him and he lost, he would still have 5,145 chips. More than enough to blind-off into the next STEP.

The only guy he is worried about calling him is Seat 4: Sengeldow. But why would Sengel call this bet? He wouldnt, he cant! Even if Sengle has AA I think he should fold this. If the chip leader sucks out on him, his tourney is over. So he will fold.

The leader can more than afford to lose to everyone else. Sengle should not call, therefore, what does the leader have to lose?

I think he has little to lose and that you should call with your AKx.

Here is the situation from the first post:
NL Hold'em Trny:7873774 Level:6 Blinds (75/150) - Monday, December 13, 20:01:05 EDT 2004
Table 1st Step 2-Table(168832) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 3: dmk4y ( $2115 )
Seat 4: sengledow ( $3165 )
Seat 10: El_Maximo ( $1960 )
Seat 1: martinbudge ( $8310 )
Seat 5: KG4_MVP ( $1675 )
Seat 6: mark83vt ( $1810 )
Seat 7: lilpenny ( $965 )
Trny:7873774 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to El_Maximo [ Kc Ah ]
KG4_MVP folds.
mark83vt folds.
lilpenny folds.
El_Maximo raises [450].
martinbudge raises [4900].
dmk4y folds.
sengledow folds.
>You have options at 1st Step 2-Table(168895) Table #1 Table!.
El_Maximo ??

[Michael C.]

Since everyone else seems to be unanimous in their oppinions, I'll give way to the majority. But let me change this question around a bit. What if you KNEW the big stack had a pair here-- what would the play be then? You're getting great pot odds for the race, but if you're a decent player, wouldn't you have better than a 50% shot of outplaying 3 other $11 players? So in that case, would a call still be correct? In the actual case, you guys made a good point. I'm probably giving the big stack too much credit for having a good hand.

[SuitedSixes]

Great twist . . . If I KNEW he had a pair, no, I lay it down. Because there is no difference between 1st and 4th . . . I'll wait. That seems contradictory to my previous post, but given the situation and the STEP1 mentality of a chip leader . . .I make this call (without knowing he has a pair) BECAUSE he is the big stack.

[Myst]

Call the all-in.

Reasons why:
1) You are barely in 4th chip position. There is no guarantee you will make your way to the money by folding.
2) The buyin is $12, meaning that Big Stack is most likely a loose bully. He will make this move with any 2 big cards, as well as any pair.
3) It is mathetmatically more likely he has two big cards than a pair. (Odds of receiving a pair preflop is 24:1)
4) You have AK, the 3rd-6th best hand in the game (depending whether you are Phil Hellmuth or T.J. Cloutier

If you fold, you are at 1500, and are in dire straits. At one point or another, you will have to go all in, probably with a worst hand with the bully left to act right behind you.

[ChrisV]

There are still 7 players left. I'm not going to go down to 1500 and try to fold my way down.

Analyses of what the big stack should do in this situation aren't a good predictor of what a typical player will actually do. Can you see a Step 1 player folding AQ in this situation? Me neither.

[Michael C.]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you see a Step 1 player folding AQ in this situation? Me neither.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the part I wasn't thinking about. I was thinking he had to have AK or a pair, because I know I wouldn't move in with AQ here. But given the nature of the $11 game, you're no doubt right, and I was wrong.

[El Maximo]

Thanks for the advice. In a normal SnG or MTT I would have called in a flash. I think I got caught up in some weak tight thinking of limping into the next level. I folded and ended up having to push later with a weaker hand and got knocked out in 5th.