Pushing My 8s

[Sweaburg]

I'm a MTT newb. This hand takes place at an UB $10, $5000 gauranteed MTT.

Blinds 100/200 and I have about T3500. BB has about T8500 and LP has about 800.

I pick up 88 UTG+1 and limp. Folded to LP who pushes his last 800. Folded to BB who cold calls. Its 600 to me and I push.

Is my push good, bad or ugly?

I figure I am probably ahead of LP more than 50% of the time here as he will push with just about any two here. BB's cold-call makes me a little nervous but I think there's a decent chance he'll fold here. He is an unkown though as I've only been at the table with BB for 1 orbit and haven't seen him get heavily involved in a hand.


Other info...theres about 225 players left and top 60 money. I am shooting for top 5 and don't care too much about just making the money.

Thanks,
Randy

[IrishSTAG15]

Only my second post, so don't take me too seriously...

I think it's OK. Reason being, I think with your stack, in your position, you have to either make some kind of raise or just fold this hand preflop and wait for a better spot.

After LP pushed, you obviously call if no one else does, but the BB coming in is bad for you - chances are, you're looking at 4 overcards drawing at you (if BB calls, which, considering pot size and his investment, he's probably calling with A10s or better anyway).

If you're really looking to advance in this tourney, and you have this hand, I think you have to raise or fold preflop. That being said, if you pushed and survived 2 people drawing at your middle pair, you're in a much more solid spot to make the big money.

[kuro]

You've only got 200 invested in the hand. BB's smooth call may very well be an invitation for you to push because they've got a strong hand that either dominates you or at best is a coinflip. So just fold and look for a better spot.

88 is really hard to play from utg+1. Unless you've got a really passive table, you probably don't want to even play it in the first place.

[VinnyTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]
So just fold and look for a better spot.
88 is really hard to play from utg+1.

[/ QUOTE ]\

Great advice.

[phixxx]

I don't think I'm folding 88 UTG...but this may be a situation where I'd minraise. IMO a minraise looks like strength from UTG, and someone coming over the top of you would be a little bit better than having to call an all in. Maybe I just get a little too creative in tournaments, oh well :P

[VinnyTheFish]

Obviously, my advice may not be the best, but just my thoughts.

[ QUOTE ]

Blinds 100/200
I have about T3500.
BB has about T8500 and LP has about 800.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> You have a very good stack. BB 8500 always makes me think twice. Also LP with 800 is a possible all-in, so anything I do will either put him all-in or fold. </font>

[ QUOTE ]
I pick up 88 UTG+1 and limp.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> ouch! I do this too, but I rarely like the result. (I consider this a big hole in my game.) IMO, Limping UTG or +1, +2 is not a good idea. I agree with the above post, I raise or fold. Your raise must be enough to put LP all-in and more than 10% of BB.</font>

[ QUOTE ]
Folded to LP who pushes his last 800.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> We expect this and welcome it. We are looking at a coin flip the majority of the time anyway. </font>

[ QUOTE ]
Folded to BB who cold calls. Its 600 to me and I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> yeah .. now you are calling a raise, you are not first to act, but last, so you lost control of the hand and you must react to them. But not all is lost. </font>

[ QUOTE ]
I figure I am probably ahead of LP more than 50% of the time here as he will push with just about any two here. BB's cold-call makes me a little nervous but I think there's a decent chance he'll fold here. He is an unknown though as I've only been at the table with BB for 1 orbit and haven't seen him get heavily involved in a hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Given your thinking, you did not make a mistake. I am a big fan of saving my chips for an attack &amp; pouncing. I feel that you are still in good shape to get to the final table. This chance allot you to risk over 20% of your stack with 3 players al be it, 2 for a side pot.

[MLG]

There's a lot of bad advice in this thread. First, there is absolutely nothing wrong with limping 8s here, especially if the table is somewhat passive. Second, unless the big stacked BB is unusually loose, or unusually tricky I like the push. There's a lot of money in the pot, and even though you have position for the rest of the hand, it will become very hard to play 88 against a big stack. Your push here represents a lot of strength and the BB should lay down a lot of hands. Good aggresive play, soyy if it didnt work out for you.

[kuro]

Just curious MLG... What hands do you consistently limp with utg+1 with an average stack on an average table and what other hands would you advocate making this play with? Do you consider yourself a LAG or a TAG?

[JARID]

[ QUOTE ]
BB's cold-call makes me a little nervous but I think there's a decent chance he'll fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands to you put him on here for flat calling and which of those hands do you think he will fold?

-Jarid

[MLG]

I consider myself neither a LAG or a TAG. Or rather I can be either depending on the table conditions. With a stack of about 18 bbs on a fairly passive table I will limp pretty much any pocket pair. I would also push with 77, but i dont think with anything lower.


Of course, average stack on an average table doesnt say anything, its the stack blind ratio thats really important.

[VinnyTheFish]

There's a lot of bad advice in this thread.

Alright, I expected to be flamed, but other ways of saying this:

I do not agree iwth ...
I would have acted ....
What I suggest ...

I understand that you are still in college, but you can get more bees with honey, rememebre, we are here to help and share info.

I happen to like my advice, even after reading it a few times.

[MLG]

ok, what I said might have been harsh. Telling somebody with about 18bbs that limping in EP with 88 is wrong is bad advice. I'm sorry if the way I said it offended you (and the fact that you know Im in college means you read my posts, and hopefully believe I have something worthwhile to say), but I stand by the message. I also think it is not a good idea to be afraid of a big stack here just because he called the small all-in. A reraise from you here represents great strength, and puts almost half his stack at risk. I am convinced that the reraise here was a good aggresive play.


better? /images/graemlins/wink.gif