Starting Hand Requirements

[Sven]

If this has been covered before please excuse me! I searched for starting hand requirements but didn't find any thing.

I play mostly NL ring games which I play Tight Aggressive and seems to work for me. But I've tried some cash tournaments that paided out 1st,2nd,3rd and the best I've placed was 3rd a couple times. Just seems like the blinds are going up every 12 mins and before long I'm looking at a short stack.

Does anyone have any suggestions on any reading material for this kind of game play? I just don't think Tight Aggressive works in tournaments! I could be wrong but so far it hasn't worked for me. I see people playing any 2 cards and dragging pots. I just don't believe that style will pay off in the long run!

[PokerCat69]

There are no books written on SnG's that I'm aware of.

What is the worst starting hand you would play in early position?

[YourFoxyGrandma]

Read the FAQ (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=844952&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1).

[se2schul]

Look for posts on the Gap concept. It essentially involves stealing the blinds when the blinds are big compared to the average stack size, and when no one else has acted before you.

It is a very powerful technique. I've just learned this technique, so I'm certainly not qualified to give a better explanation than that.

Hope it helps,
Steve

[Sven]

J9 off I would guess

[Sven]

thanks steve I will look in to for sure /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
J9 off I would guess

[/ QUOTE ]

My worst would be AQ, or 77 and up (dependent on table. If very aggressive, this becomes 88 or even 99)

J9 is way too loose.

Tight aggressive certainly does pay off. Over the 33 tourneys where I have posted the ridiculous ROI lately, over all blinds my seen flop % is around about 18.

[ghostface]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=602767& fpart=&PHPSESSID=

Thats a good place to start. Its only for 10+1 but I'm sure it can be adjusted to suit your buyin.

The gap concept can be found here.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=1326961 &fpart=&PHPSESSID=

[Unarmed]

tiger, where do you play? Party?
Not playing 22-66 UTG is criminal at Stars on level 1.

Also, if you're folding 22 how is 77 that much better? I don't differentiate between 77 and 22 because the only way I get past the flop with either is if I hit my set. Are you worried about set over set?

Just curious...

[tigerite]

Yes, at Party. If it's an aggressive table then there's no way to play 22 UTG, it can't withstand a raise, and my odds to play for a set are gone to whack. You are right that 77-99 is no better because I'd fold that too, but the times I get 77-99 compared to 22-66 are much less and thus I don't mind taking the chance of losing 1BB with these hands. The rest just become leaks if I'm getting re-raised all the time.

No, not worried about set over set. I believe I saw a post from someone who even advocated folding 99 from UTG, so I'm not even the tightest player /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Sven]

In my usual NL ring games I agree with raising with AA-JJ and AK,AQ,AJs and limping in withMed Pocket Pairs ect ect. These tourneys are not very big 30 people at best and $30 buy in. In my usual ring game my stats are
Vol $ Put In Pot 17.10%
Went to ShowDown 28.63%
Won at Showdown 59.65%
PF Raise 5.4% maybe a little low

Just seems like playing Tight has gotten me know where so far and I watch these guys winning pot after pot and I was just wondering if I should lower my starting hands I play with that's all. The J9 is what I have been trying in these tourneys but I would never think about that in any of the NL ring games I play in. If this makes any sense I appreciate your help!!!

[Sven]

Thanks Ghost Reading Them Now /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[tigerite]

Raise with AJs? No thanks, unless it's folded to me in late position. AQ I will raise again in late position, but this time with limpers - otherwise it's a limp, too.

[Sven]

I will limp in or come in with a small raise with low pocket pairs hoping for a set and if it don't hit then I fold to a big bet.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
Just seems like playing Tight has gotten me know where so far and I watch these guys winning pot after pot and I was just wondering if I should lower my starting hands I play with that's all. The J9 is what I have been trying in these tourneys but I would never think about that in any of the NL ring games I play in. If this makes any sense I appreciate your help!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Let them play like that. It's a losing proposition in the long run. It took me a long time to realise this. But the way I play (and most of the others here) is the right way.

[Sven]

In early position if I'm the first one in I will bring it in for a 4-6x the BB with any of the following AA-88 AKs,AK,AQs,AQ,AJs and if calling an EP raise then I will call with QQ-TT and Rerasie with AA,KK,AKs This has worked really well for me in NL ring games. I'm not sure if I should still how this standard in tourneys what do you think? Is this to tight for EP? Thanks

[Sven]

Agreed Tiger! I guess I just needed to bounce this off some people that have the same goal in mind. "Long Term Winning" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
In early position if I'm the first one in I will bring it in for a 4-6x the BB with any of the following AA-88 AKs,AK,AQs,AQ,AJs and if calling an EP raise then I will call with QQ-TT and Rerasie with AA,KK,AKs This has worked really well for me in NL ring games. I'm not sure if I should still how this standard in tourneys what do you think? Is this to tight for EP? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

It's too loose. For one thing you should not alter your standard raise, which should be 3BB (plus extra for limpers) no matter what. For another you shouldn't raise AQ or AJ, suited or otherwise, into a full field. What do you do when re-raised? I fold AJo from EP and quite often I'll fold AJs as well, the suitedness doesn't add enough strength to the hand to make it worthwhile.

[tigerite]

Oh boy, and raising AA-88? Forget that right now. You want to raise AA-JJ and the rest you want to limp. What are you going to do if you raise 88 to 6BB and someone pops you back with KK? You can't rebuy, you know. Once your chips are gone - that's it.

[Sven]

I don't have alot of tourney experience that's why I'm here. I was thinking that coming in for a raise 4x the BB and if lots of limpers then 5-6x the BB to weed the crowd. Then if I'm raised from an LP depending on the raise I might call it. LP could be playing allot of different cards and I wouldn't put my tourney life at stake for AQ or even AJs. Do you think raising 3BB is enough?

[Sven]

I agree with yea and I will tighen up EP to AA-JJ /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Sven]

Forgot to add and limp with the rest hoping for a set /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have alot of tourney experience that's why I'm here. I was thinking that coming in for a raise 4x the BB and if lots of limpers then 5-6x the BB to weed the crowd. Then if I'm raised from an LP depending on the raise I might call it. LP could be playing allot of different cards and I wouldn't put my tourney life at stake for AQ or even AJs. Do you think raising 3BB is enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

3 is fine.. if there are limpers you should only be raising with AQ from late position, not from early because of the chance of someone picking up AK, AA, KK or QQ and popping you back, and then you're in a world of pain. But of course, with limpers, you raise more. Look for Daliman's post on it, I didn't raise enough before reading it, now I do /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

As for LP could be playing a lot of cards, I think you need to read about the 'gap concept' to find this isn't usually the case, unless he's a maniac.

[Sven]

I will try to find Daliman's post and I have been reading up on the gap concept tonight. Thanks for your help =)

[syka16]

I don't understand why people raise AJs in SNGs 33s. Ok, maybe a small raise in LP to fold out the blinds.

Are you hoping get called by AT or KJ with a raise? Keep them in with a limp. I limp with AJs UTG and fold to a raise.

You raised UTG...

1. You're likely to be dominated.
2. You're really only comfortable if you flop a J.
3. You're in a world of hurt against a reraise.

Limp. Save up for a big double up with a set of 4s.

If you're playing at Poker Room, where you start with 1500, limp with 22 you can handle a 100 raise.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, at Party. If it's an aggressive table then there's no way to play 22 UTG, it can't withstand a raise, and my odds to play for a set are gone to whack.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that, in a nutshell, is why I will never play at party. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise with AJs? No thanks, unless it's folded to me in late position. AQ I will raise again in late position, but this time with limpers - otherwise it's a limp, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

wait...so if a few limp to you in lp and u hold AQ u raise, but if folds to you in lp same hand you limp? That seems the opposite of what one should do imo. Maybe I misunderstood though in which case, sorry. Or I understood but just play it differently maybe. Of course it helps to clarify that we are speaking of early levels in a SNG, right? (1-3)

[tigerite]

Not sure what the hell I was on about tbh. Yes I'd raise it first in as well.