Interesting Bonds article

[ThaSaltCracka]

From Skip "I hate Barry Bonds" Bayless
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/041210

Thoughts?

[sfer]

That's pretty interesting. I guess even Bayless wants to believe the things Bonds did were legitimate. I don't know though. I was as big a Bonds fan as they get, and from what I've read, it's hard to believe he didn't know what he was doing and taking every step of the way.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I think Bayless is just trying to be impartial though. I found it very interesting that he gives Bonds and Sheff as pass this time for not knowing what they put in their bodies, but he stresses that excuse won't fly in the future. Very good read IMO.

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
From Skip "I hate Barry Bonds" Bayless
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/041210

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Skip Bayless writes whatever he thinks will get people talking about Skip Bayless. After hearing him occasionally spout his drivel when he was in Dallas and Chicago, I had the displeasure of having him land at the San Jose Mercury...all he does is stir the pot - I'm not even sure he has any actual opinions.

Thank God for Cold Pizza - my favorite show that I've never watched - as it got Bayless off the Merc.

[ThaSaltCracka]

okay, any thoughts on the article?

[sfer]

It is a good read. But ultimately, there have been a number of articles describing Bonds's meticulous control over his workouts, and it's unfathomable to me that he didn't know what he was taking.

[Boris]

Bayless is 99.99% blowhard. But this article was pretty good.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a good read. But ultimately, there have been a number of articles describing Bonds's meticulous control over his workouts, and it's unfathomable to me that he didn't know what he was taking.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, but why do you think Bayless is giving him a pass?

[sfer]

The telling line was that thing about Bonds's respect for the game, would never yada yada yada. It seems clearly that there's a gossip-rich sportwriter community that knows or believes it knows a lot more than they write. I think Bayless believes it and, maybe just as important, wants to believe the last 4 years were for real.

It's really hard for me to say, because I want to believe he didn't take them.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems clearly that there's a gossip-rich sportwriter community that knows or believes it knows a lot more than they write. I think Bayless believes it and, maybe just as important, wants to believe the last 4 years were for real.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay, that is very interesting.

Whats strange though is it seems like no one wants to believe Bonds story.

[J.R.]

Whats strange though is it seems like no one wants to believe Bonds story.

His story is an obvious lie. Its called plauible deniability. Much of what trial lawyer's do involves assisting their client's in concocting such stories. Its no different with Bonds- plead ignorance about the facts of the situation when you can't plausibly deny doing it and potentially face a perjury charge if you do try to claim you didn't do it. Flaxseed oil- give me a f'ing break.

[offTopic]

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okay, any thoughts on the article?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty typical - he presents a summary of a hot-topic issue and then slants his "opinion" whatever way he feels will generate the most discussion.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
okay, any thoughts on the article?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty typical - he presents a summary of a hot-topic issue and then slants his "opinion" whatever way he feels will generate the most discussion.

[/ QUOTE ] /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Boris]

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Its called plauible deniability. Much of what trial lawyer's do involves assisting their client's in concocting such stories.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this straight, a trial lawyer's primary responsibility is to help a client commit perjury?

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Flaxseed oil- give me a f'ing break.

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The Flaxseed oil story is consistent with the stories of several other athletes associated with Balco.

[J.R.]

No, its not necessarily perjury, its plasuible deniability or some other variant. Much of what trial lawyer's do (when preparing for trial) involves witness prep, especially in the criminal sphere where sublte issues like state of mind are implicated. There are different ways to say things which convey different meanings. In this case, the line between perjury and plausible deniability is much thinner.


Simply becuase others have thrown out the flaxseed line doesn't make it truthful- many indiviuals (Kelli white, Giambi, etc) have frankly admitted they knew they were getting steroids. I find it incredulous of Bonds to claim he didn't know what he was using, and that somehow Anderson went out of his way to procure a cutting edge, expensive and clandestine steroid for Bond's use and he didn't tell Bonds and Bonds didn't really ask the obvious quesitons (what is flaxseed, why is it so expensive, who else used this stuff, why can't I get it elsewhere, etc.).

In addition, stuff like Bonds brought Anderson to Japan with him, and that's where Giambi met Anderson and learned he could get steroids (THG) from Anderson. So Bonds is introducing Anderson to others (or they are mettign anderson through hsi connection with Bonds) and Anderson is then distributing steroids to these others but Bonds never knew that Anderson sold roids to others even though others approached anderson to get roids and Anderson told others that the cream he was distributing was a roid but he kept his prize client in the dark and exposed his prized client to all the potential side effects and ramifications without full disclosure? Eh

There's also some other documents that suggest that Bonds wasn't so innocent (checks, calanders, etc). And regardless of what people say about immunity from criminal prosecution, Bonds has a vested interest in not openly acknowledging he used steroids. Its my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours. Didn't you make a post last week disagreeing with my thought that the estimate that 50% of all baseball players were on roids seemed too high?

[ThaSaltCracka]

It seems you are using his association with Anderson as your main reason for assuming his guilt. I know this is all that is usually needed in the court of public opinion, but not in a court of law.

Your post was interesting though, and I am not sure if I am dismissing any of it either.

[J.R.]

I'm not assuming any guilt, to the extent you are using a legal word. I just think he is F.O.S. when he says he didn't know the true character of what he was using. I'm not trying to use his association with anderson for anything special. Its just my opinion he is lying when he says he didn't know. But then agin, we only have a secondhand story based on leaked info about what bonds allegedly said to the grand jury, so the source and its accuracy needs to be considered. But assuming its true..

Bonds admitted anderson gave him the stuff, and Bonds maintains anderson never told him it was anything but flaxseed oil and arthritis cream and further that bonds did not have reason to doubt anderson's claim. Giambi also dealt with anderson and Giambi knew he was getting roids from anderson. Giabmi even admits he sought out anderson for steroids, so it seems odd other people knew they could get steroids from bond's trainer (Bonds is the one who connected anderson with giambi) but Bonds himself didn't know. Others knew anderson was giving them roids, but bonds didn't know, even though it was an expensive, clandestine, hitherto relatively unheard of supplement that couldn't be gotten elsewhere.

I'd don't know either, but I find bonds incredulous based on my understanding and read on the info out there. Bond isn't on trial for anything, and I'm not suggesting he could be convicted of perjury even if he is lying. I just think he is F.O.S.

[ThaSaltCracka]

do you think its possible, Anderson was selling roids, and that Bonds didn't know? Only reason I ask is because people have been known to look like stand-up legit guys, but under the cover they aren't. Many a person has been made a fool by people like this.

[J.R.]

I don't think bonds statement is on its face impossible; rather, I think its improbable, and if true shows a naive, trusting and unsophisticated persona that completely conflicts with what limited understanding I have of Bonds based upon his public persona and the comments of those who know or claim to know him.

Bonds seems like anything but trustful of others, he seems utterly determined to selfishly protect his interests. The apparently somewhat impromptu racial commentary Bonds lunged into in his testimony kinda gets into, with his notion of I'm black, and everybody is out to get me (paranoid about social ordering and racial issues), so F them, I got mine go get some yourself and don't f with me. I'm not saying those thoughts are uncalled for or inaccurate, but that doesn't jive with his story that "anderson gave it to me and his story was fishy but I trusted him completely and didn't ask any tough questions." I don't see bonds taking that chance/repsonding in that fashion, sfer kinda alluded to it early with respect to the fact that bonds meticulously controls most things in his life.

It is entirely possible he isn't lying. I just don't think that is the case, regardless of what my heart or emotions would like to think, as I love baseball and this is bad for baseball, and because Bonds is the greatest player I'll likely ever see and steroids have nothing to do with that fact. I want to belive bonds, and have for sometime given him the benefit of the doubt, but don't think I can anymore.

[ThaSaltCracka]

good post.

I think you made an excellent point with I'm not saying those thoughts are uncalled for or inaccurate, but that doesn't jive with his story that "anderson gave it to me and his story was fishy but I trusted him completely and didn't ask any tough questions." I don't see bonds taking that chance/repsonding in that fashion, sfer kinda alluded to it early with respect to the fact that bonds meticulously controls most things in his life. I suppose when you think about that right there, which is def true, it does make his story more improbable.