AK hand 1 from Empire $250K

[Che]

Empire $250K Guaranteed, Blinds 10/20, 10-handed

First 2 fold then table chip leader (2980) opens for 90, 2 more fold, Hero calls (1712, A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif), others fold.

Chip leader is very LAG. Plays lots of pots and bets nearly every flop. Folds to resistance, but will raise weak bets. Will continue betting when he meets no resistance. Has only shown down 2 hands (both big) out of 15 or so he has won (~40 hands into the tourney). He varies his bet sizes, and his bets seem to communicate what he wants you to do (big bet = “please fold”…small bet = “please call”…flop check-raise = “I’ve got a whopper”).

No, my reads aren’t normally this precise, but the guy was definitely the center of attention. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Flop: T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif (Pot=210)

Villain bets 175. Hero calls.

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif (Pot=560)

Villain bets 375. Hero calls.

River: 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (Pot=1310)

Villain bets 300. Hero calls.

Comments on all streets appreciated…

Later,
Che

(Note: I'll post AK hand 2 in a day or two. It happened 4 hands after the 99 hand I posted and the results of the 99 hand might affect evaluation the AK hand.)

[Msogard]

I would consider raising his flop bet to about 400 to see where you stand on a scary flop. You said he continues to bet without resistance and this is not a board I'd want to call down. Fold to a re-raise. If he just calls your hand is probably good and you can control the action from there.

[DeezNutz3]

I actually like how you played it based on your read of the opponent.

[dr_zorba]

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif (Pot=210)

Villain bets 175. Hero calls.

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif (Pot=560)

Villain bets 375. Hero calls.

River: 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (Pot=1310)

Villain bets 300. Hero calls.

Comments on all streets appreciated…

[/ QUOTE ]
To a beginner who plays for fun & glory, this looks very strange. When I play a hand like this I am busted by villain's 89s that I allowed him to draw because I didn't raise before or after the Flop.
Another confusing aspect of your strategy is you don't find out if villain has KQ until all your chips are gone.
I have a lot to learn because to a beginner, this looks a lot like the way fish play in the Freerolls, calling off their entire stack after starting with 30 chips on the table.
Is this some sort of super-advanced strategy far beyond my comprehension? Thanks for further explication and instruction.

[Prime Time]

I would pop the turn to see where I am, and would be happy to take it down right there.

[Paul2432]

I also like the line. Raising to "find out where you're at" has several problems.

1) You might misread the situation and fold the best hand or go all-in with the worst hand. For example, if you raise the flop and your opponent calls, what does this mean? Are you sure this opponent won't reraise all-in with AQ?

2) If he has a hand like AQ, KK or QQ, he is drawing very thin and you would not want to take him out of the lead.

3) Your hand is strong enough to show down, but you want to keep the pot as small as possible.

Paul

[SossMan]

I like it.

very Tommy Angelo-ian.

would you have checked behind if a Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif came on the river, just to fcuk w/ his head?

seriously, though, you don't have enough chips to "find out where you are", especially on the turn. What are you going to do, raise then fold getting 8 or 9 to 1 on your money w/ TPTK and a gutshot to the nuts vs. a lag? i think not. once that ace flops, you are in this hand to the felt against him.
check calling is fine, since he's going to continue to give you chips. if he has A4, that sucks.

[schwza]

without a specific read on the opponent, i agree - this would be a strange/poor line. but against a player who will likely continue betting with a losing hand, why alert him to the fact that he's behind (he "folds to resistence")? hero is willing to go to the felt with this hand - he may as well try to get there against hands he's beating instead of just the hands that beat him.

yes, it's possible that villain will do something like spike a set on the river with his 44 that he would have folded. but it's more likely that he'll bluff off all his chips with 55 if you give him the chance.

[Che]

He had AQ. MHIG. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

This line felt very fishy to me at the time, but I let my thinking overrule my feeling. Here's what I was thinking:

Preflop: I'm surprised no one said I should raise, but I think the call is much better. Note: At this point, I have ruled out AA-QQ, AK because he would raise less with AK and limp the big pairs.

Flop: Wide range of hands at this point.

I'm ahead of AQ, Ax (x<T), KJ, KT, QJ, QT, pairs <TT, other junk.

I'm behind KQ, JJ, TT, AJ, AT, JT. But, I think KQ/JJ/TT check and AJ/AT/JT bet smaller so I'm most likely ahead. Calling is risky since tons of cards can hurt me, but I don't want to alert him to the fact that I have something decent so I decide to take the risk.

Turn: Now I'm behind A7/77/98. Otherwise, nothing has changed other than the addition of a flush draw.

I read his bet as big enough that he still wants a fold so I again figure I'm ahead.

I don't like raising since I can probably see a showdown on the river for the same price as a turn raise and I don't want to reopen the betting with ~1100 still in my stack.

River: Now 44 and A4 have caught me. Otherwise, I'm probably golden, but I don't want to raise since he won't fold anything I'm beating. I give up a little value when I'm ahead, but I think the call is best.

Another point: One other reason I was willing to call him down was that I didn't think he would get all-in with a hand that couldn't beat TPTK. As I tried to indicate with my initial read, he was LAG but not dumb LAG. If he had ever made a bet that pot-committed me, I would have strongly considered folding. As it was, I thought I had odds to keep playing even though I knew it was risky.

More feedback appreciated as I think a lot of this is not clear-cut...

Che

[Paul2432]

The key for me was your statement in the original message that your opponent likes to raise weak bets. To me this means, he knows he is a LAG, and knows people will test him because of this. If you raise the flop just 200-300 more he might see this as a resteal on your part and re-raise all-in with a wide range of hands knowing you will quite likely fold. That means, any flop raise has to have some teeth. Say 500 more, which more or less commits you to being all-in which you want to avoid.

In other words, raising puts you in the classic to be avoided situation of win a little or lose a lot.

As far as whether to reraise preflop, I think the fact that you have position, dictates a call. If you were in the BB I would be more inclined to re-raise.

Interesting hand.

Paul

[SossMan]

I bet those at the table with you when this hand went down were much easier to read for the rest of the tourney, no?

-SossMan

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet those at the table with you when this hand went down were much easier to read for the rest of the tourney, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, my handling of the big stack bully on this hand plus a slowplayed AA hand (against the bully and another guy) definitely established me as someone that should not be messed with. I was very pleased to be at Table 10 so that I could take advantage of my table image for a long time.

I was fortunate to be able to accumulate a rather large stack as a result, and I would have been among the top 5 in chip count with ~55 left if my QQ had held up against AKs all-in preflop. I was able to manuever my crippled stack to 23rd, so the final result wasn't terrible, but I really could have done some damage with that monster stack late in the game. Sigh...

[JARID]

Hi Che,

Aside from winning the pot, did you feel like you gained a bigger edge against the LAG by playing it in this unconventional way?
This hand seems to send a message that "I'm on to your act, don't mess with me". I only ask because I'll often do unconventional call downs, or plays against LAGs in limit ring and I find it somewhat effective in taming them. Just curious as to your "metagame" considerations. NH.

Regards,
Jarid

[kuro]

I like smooth calling preflop against a LAG that has you covered as well. It keeps the pot small which gives you room to bet out and induce a fold of a small pp and at the same time makes it easier to throw away your hand if it doesn't hit and you get resistance.

I'd have reraised on the flop because the board is so coordinated and would have been willing to call an all-in. I don't want to get out drawn and figure that if he's the type that varies his bet size that I'm clearly ahead.

[morgan180]

Che,

I like the call with AK as well - I liken it to Harrington's "reduce volatility" in HOHE. You outplayed him after the flop no need to turn it in to a math problem pre-flop. By that I mean if you had raised I would imagine a LAG would come right back over the top with as little as AQ...

The only thing I would consider is you said a big bet means he wants a fold a small bet means he wants a call. The river bet is pretty small in regards to the size of the pot. Obviously you were reading the bets on the flop/turn as don't call bets, did the small river bet seem strange to you at all? Not that the 4 would change anything..

Nice hand, great read.

morgan

[Che]

The river bet looked like it wanted a call, but my odds were too good at that point to fold. Also, his bets had been getting smaller on each street which indicated to me that he wanted to keep up the pressure but wasn't excited about getting me all-in for over half his stack.

The preflop and river plays were the easiest IMHO. Flop and turn were much tougher.

Later,
Che

[Che]

Jarid-

I thought calling the LAG down was the best play with this hand on this board so that's what I did.

I don't often make plays for future "metagame" reasons, and I never make a play to send a message if it costs me a big chunk of chips (as I knew this hand would). I just make the play I think is best for the given situation and then adjust my future plays as a result of what happened previously.

For example, if the "best" play gives me a LAG image (e.g. I get caught bluffing or semi-bluffing), I use that to my advantage later. If the "best" play gives me a weak-tight image (e.g. folding my SB to the BB a couple of times), I use that to my advantage later.

In this case, I called with borderline hands after this knowing that my opponents would be unlikely to bluff me on the turn (thus decreasing my probability of making a mistake). Also, I reraised preflop with all my big hands which made people think I was stealing (since I flat called AA and AK preflop earlier) which led to my doubling up three times later on when opponents had no business tangling with me.

Later,
Che